Octaves, 4th or 5th Finger?

[frank_48]

which do you guys use, im curious. and why would you choose to play your way vs the other (which ever that may be)

i use my 4th finger on black keys because to me, its faster and more accurate. but i recently heard that using the 4th is wrong because it makes your wrist use a twisting motion..

i can play using 1-5 but can never attain the same speed as 1-5, 1-4 etc.

[thalbergmad]

I remember reading that Tausig played the left hand octaves in the "Heroic" Polonaise 1-5,  1-3,  1-4 & 1-5. When i played the same piece to my teacher using the same fingering, he went a bit mental and adivsed on 1-5 all the way, as it is more powerful.

I do however use 1-3 and 1-4, where legato is required, such as in some Chopin nocturnes and Thalberg transcriptions.

I do not like to think of anything as right or wrong with piano. I use whatever is required to get the effect i want.

Thal

[general disarray]

I do not like to think of anything as right or wrong with piano. I use whatever is required to get the effect i want.

Thal

Same here.  And I experiment.  A lot.  Octaves are my last great technical frontier.  I've been saving the Tchaikovsky Concerto for this.  So far, I'm finding more accuracy and more speed using 4 on black, 5 on white.  But I vary this depending on keyboard topography in any given passage.  4 on white and 5 on black, when necessary.  Whatever fits my hand for that particular passage. 

I don't think you can make firm rules.  Try out fingering and see what works for you. 

[composerpianist]

.

[kelly_kelly]

I use 4 where legato is required; otherwise I'll usually use 5 because using 4 stretches/tires my hand after a while.

[pies]

a

[pianochick93]

I don't believe I can reach 1-4.

[composerpianist]

.

[Petter]

1 and 2.

[retrouvailles]

1 and 2.

I actually can reach 1-2 octaves on many notes. I usually just alternate 1-5 and 1-4 with the occasional 1-3.

[franzliszt2]

I use 4 and 5 most of the time. I will use 1-3 if I want something legato and using 3 will help this. I can't say I use 1-4 on black notes all the time, it depends heavily on where my hand has came from, and where it intends to go after the octave. I will change finger on the top note quite often when there is time, like play 1-5, then change to a 4, and then play the next octave with a 5 and then change again, or vice versa to get a passage legato.

I sometimes use 1 then 345 on top if I want a much bigger sound.

I know someone who can use 2-5 very easily, and can play that variation in Brahms Paganini variations Bk 2 with the octaves and single note alternation using 2-5 on the octaves.

Im sure in the video of Hamelin playing ala italia from the Busoni concerto he plays a passage of LH octaves using 2 5. The bit when the LH is above the RH and both hands are playing octaves. He has huge hands as well apparently.


I can remember when I couldn't play octaves with 1 4, and had to use 1 5 all the time. Luckily my hand got bigger!

[retrouvailles]

I know someone who can use 2-5 very easily, and can play that variation in Brahms Paganini variations Bk 2 with the octaves and single note alternation using 2-5 on the octaves.

Im sure in the video of Hamelin playing ala italia from the Busoni concerto he plays a passage of LH octaves using 2 5. The bit when the LH is above the RH and both hands are playing octaves. He has huge hands as well apparently.

Actually, playing 2-5 octaves is not as hard as one would think. All you have to do is pretend you are doing the sign of the horns to the piano and the octaves just flow. It really isn't that practical I don't think, though, especially if you have to to contort your hands into an uncomfortable position.

[franzliszt2]

Well it is rather hard if your hands don't stretch an octave easily with 2-5. I can only just get it, but I certainly couldn't move around at any normal speed doing it, and I would have very little control over the sound.

[tds]

2 and 3

[pianochick93]

2 and 3

Your piano must have small keys 

[general disarray]

I use 4 where legato is required; otherwise I'll usually use 5 because using 4 stretches/tires my hand after a while.

You need to refine your rotational technique more, then.  Using 4 with 5 provides smoothness, better tone production (the arm weight is obliquely engaged) and greater accuracy.  Just using 5 is like bringing a jackhammer to the keyboard.

[javacisnotrecognized]

I sometimes use 1-4 on the black keys, and occasionally 1-3 if I can't connect something with the pedal. For raw speed I use 1-5 on everything.

[frank_48]

how do you guys play chromatic octaves?

my octaves havnt been that great as of late, so last week i set myself out to improve my octave playing dramaticly and it has worked, however, my knuckle joint on my 4th finger began to be in a lot of pain after about a week so i stopped playing octaves for about 2 days and the pain has completly gone now, i still practice my octaves but im afraid to go back to 1-4 at this point because i do not want to further injure myself.

my 1-5 playing of octaves has seemed improved though.

is there some 'proper' motion i can use to avoid injuring my 4th finger?

[andhow04]

im surprised no=one mentioned the fingering I uise!!  1, 4-5
Yes I use both fingers on black keys, four and five together

[ramseytheii]

Good fingering!

Walter Ramsey

[Petter]

im surprised no=one mentioned the fingering I uise!!  1, 4-5
Yes I use both fingers on black keys, four and five together

Really? For legato without pedaling? Or fast staccato octaves as well?

[franzliszt2]

how do you guys play chromatic octaves?

my octaves havnt been that great as of late, so last week i set myself out to improve my octave playing dramaticly and it has worked, however, my knuckle joint on my 4th finger began to be in a lot of pain after about a week so i stopped playing octaves for about 2 days and the pain has completly gone now, i still practice my octaves but im afraid to go back to 1-4 at this point because i do not want to further injure myself.

my 1-5 playing of octaves has seemed improved though.

is there some 'proper' motion i can use to avoid injuring my 4th finger?

You just need to build up the strength in the 4th finger. Or get a teacher to have a look at how you are practicing them.

A pretty hardcore method to practice getting strength in the 4th fingers for octaves is to get pick up a pencil and make a fist around it....so either end sticks out from opposite ends of the hand. Now release the thumb and 5th finger and keep the pencil gripped between the 2nd 3rd and 4th fingers. Then practice scales in octaves using 1-5 keeping hold of the pencil. It does 2 things.....frees up 2 3 and 4 by giving you more control over them, and also strengthens 4, and it also forces you to relax the wrist. It is impossible to do it with a tense wrist, so it will help free that up as well. DO NOT do it for very long though, at the first sign of fatigue stop.

Always practice octaves voices seperatly...especially the top voice of RH and bottom of LH. This will again build up the weak finger strength.

Just do a little bit everyday, like 5 mins to start with, then up the time as you get stronger and more relaxed. You will start to find 1 4 a lot more comfortable if you just keep doing it and building it up

[bandsoul]

Usually: black keys-4th, white keys-5th
but always it depends on what you have to play, and what fits better to your fingers...

[ghchopin]

Going up scale of octives, left hand 5-1,5-4,5-1,5-4, etc, goind down, 5-1,5-1, etc.
Right hand is all 5-1

[ramseytheii]

Going up scale of octives, left hand 5-1,5-4,5-1,5-4, etc, goind down, 5-1,5-1, etc.
Right hand is all 5-1

Holy wow.  Can you post a picture of your hands?  I have never seen anyone play an octave wiht 5-4!!!!!

Walter Ramsey

[ghchopin]

Holy wow.  Can you post a picture of your hands?  I have never seen anyone play an octave wiht 5-4!!!!!

Walter Ramsey

XD ,stupid error, I ment "Going up scale of octives, left hand 5-1,5-2,5-1,5-2, etc, going down, 5-1,5-1, etc.
Right hand is all 5-1"

[kris_k]

I used 1-4 on black keys and 1-5 on white keys.

[nanabush]

If someone is using 1-5 for black and white, then they are completely missing out on a way more efficient way to play octaves! lol

[nmgfestival_com]

Lets see how octaves are being played by the living champion of this kind of technique

New Musical Generation artist

Alexei Grynyuk

Full video of the rapsody at
https://www.nmgfestival.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4&Itemid=8&lang=en

[pianowolfi]

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=21918.0

hmmm interesting discussion. Well at least partially interesting.

[pianisten1989]

Plain virtuosity has been seen... I'm rather tired of it...