Legendary Recordings That Were Never Made

[mikebechstein]

I don’t know if there has been a dedicated thread with this question before. (Apologies if there has.)

I was wondering what people thought would have made legendary recordings which (for whatever reason, other than recording not being invented yet) were never made. (Or correct me if I am wrong, and any of these have been made, and you will make my day!)

The ones I would love to hear are:

  Hoffman in Rachmaninoff's 3rd Piano Concerto.

  Bernstein in Gershwin’s Piano Concerto

  Lipatti in Chopin’s 2nd Sonata and Chopin’s Ballades

  Rachmaninoff in Chopin’s Third Sonata


What recording would make your day if discovered in a recording studio’s archive?

[quantum]

Chopin plays Chopin

[pies]

a

[goldentone]

Liszt performing the Sonata in B minor.

[Bob]

I think there is one of Bernstien playing Rhapsody in Blue.  Just to add that.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Liszt - Thalberg duel, Paris 1837. (Something tells me Steven Mayer's recreation wouldn't compare)

Mahler conducting Busoni in the Emperor concerto

Busoni playing Alkan

Cziffra playing in Budapest night clubs

Beethoven versus Steibelt (or Gelinek) improvisation contest

[opus10no2]

Rachmaninov playing Alkan's Comme le Vent.

[richard black]

Mahler conducting Busoni in the Emperor concerto

Mahler conducting ANYTHING, dammit!

[communist]

Tausig playing Geisterschiff

[ahinton]

Mahler conducting ANYTHING, dammit!

Rakhmaninov's Third Concerto with the composer as soloist would do me for starters; at least we know that the performance happened...

Best,

Alistair

[rabbity baxter]

It would be rather nice to hear studio recordings of:
Sofronitsky complete Scriabin
Feinberg Scriabin sonatas, and his own sonatas.

But I fear we never will...

[mikebechstein]

Bob, there are at least two recordings of Bernstein playing Rhapsody in Blue. It is because I love these so much that I am always disappointed that he never recorded the concerto.

Ronde-des-Sylphes – I love the idea that someone may have recorded Cziffra improvising and playing jazz, in particular, when he used to play in night clubs. How would it compare to Tatum I wonder?

[thierry13]

Rakhmaninov's Third Concerto with the composer as soloist would do me for starters; at least we know that the performance happened...

Best,

Alistair

I actually have the four concertos + the rhapsody on a theme of paganini with the composer as soloist, all this on 2 wonderful CDs.

[thierry13]

Busoni playing Busoni

This also exists, and is on youtube. I know there is at least the chaconne in D minor played by himself ...

[retrouvailles]

I was wondering what people thought would have made legendary recordings which (for whatever reason, other than recording not being invented yet) were never made.

Why are so many people missing this main point in the original poster's thread? Things like Chopin plays Chopin, the Liszt-Thalberg duel, etc were impossible, so there is no use in hoping that they are discovered someday, because they won't be. Now can someone please contribute something relevant to this thread? I'll give this one a try:

Cziffra playing Alkan (anything). Supposedly he played his music (I've heard from a few sources) but was never confident enough to record it or play it in plublic.

[argerichfan]

Why are so many people missing this main point in the original poster's thread? Things like Chopin plays Chopin, the Liszt-Thalberg duel, etc were impossible...

But the OP lists Hofmann in Rachmaninov 3, another impossibility as Hofmann never had any interest in playing the piece.

We do know that Rachmaninov played the Tchaikovsky Bb minor, and it's posterity's loss that there is no recording. 

[pianogeek_cz]

Rakhmaninov's Third Concerto with the composer as soloist would do me for starters; at least we know that the performance happened...

Best,

Alistair

I actually have that recording... somewhere.
It's in terrible quality, but, hey, it's -the- thing!

[pianowolfi]

I actually have that recording... somewhere.
It's in terrible quality, but, hey, it's -the- thing!

But Alistair meant with Mahler conducting 

[ahinton]

But Alistair meant with Mahler conducting 

I did indeed; here is some detail about that.

Rachmaninov had written a third piano concerto, tailor-made for his first North American tour in late 1909. Rachmaninov introduced the work in New York on November 28, with Walter Damrosch and the New York Symphony. He played it there again in January [1910], with Gustav Mahler conducting the New York Philharmonic (only weeks after Mahler's own First Symphony, in its American première, was a flop). Rachmaninov was bowled over by Mahler's meticulous rehearsal method—"the accompaniment," Rachmaninov recalled, "which is rather complicated, had been practiced to the point of perfection"—by his attention to detail, and by his refusal to stop working until he was satisfied (rehearsal ran an hour overtime).

One might like also to be able to imagine Mahler's similar attention to orchestral detail had he only rehearsed and conducted performances of the piano concerto of Busoni with its composer as soloist and, heaven knows, there is a multitude of subtle detail in the orchestration of that monumental work - OK, Busoni himself conducted the work almost as many times as he played its solo part during his lifetime, but...

Best,

Alistair

[argerichfan]

One might like also to be able to imagine Mahler's similar attention to orchestral detail had he only rehearsed and conducted performances of the piano concerto of Busoni with its composer as soloist

Well in New York Mahler accompanied Busoni in the Emperor.  From what I've read about the performance, it was mighty controversial, but just imagine those two titans on the same stage! 

It is an utter tragedy that Busoni died so (relatively) young.  Another 10 or 15 years, and the mind boggles at the possible recordings he could have left us, not to mention finishing an opera and perhaps giving us more... 

[minor9th]

Lazar Berman playing Sorabji's Sequentia Cyclica Super Dies Irae in the 1970s. (Hey, if I'm going to dream, I want to dream big!)   In a pinch, I'd settle for Ivo Pogorelich playing it before he went off the deep end.

[general disarray]

Petter playing his 33 variations on the hymn "Come to Jesus" with culminating Fugue for chromatic harmonica, piano and sakbutt. 

A forgotten Swedish classic.

[general disarray]

The great, late American soprano, Frances Yeend, who gave the first American performances of Puccini's "Turandot" at the New York City Opera, but earlier did legendary and unforgettable performances of this opera at the Arena Verona in Italy.

Okay, it's not the piano.  So sue me.

The woman had more talent than Sorabji, for goddsakes. 

[loonbohol]

Mozart playing 12 variations for twinkle twinkle little star.
Is that even true or possible.

[argerichfan]

The great, late American soprano, Frances Yeend, who gave the first American performances of Puccini's "Turandot" at the New York City Opera...

I thought the American premiere of Turandot was at the Met with Maria Jeritza in 1926.  Yeend would have been 13 at the time.  Or did Yeend give the first performance in English in the US?

Whatever, I'd give anything to hear a recording of Jeritza in Strauss's Die Frau or Korngold's Violanta.  She must have been a sight to behold. 

Edit: oops, you were only referring to the first performances of Turandot with NYCO.  Sorry. 

[ahinton]

Lazar Berman playing Sorabji's Sequentia Cyclica Super Dies Irae in the 1970s. (Hey, if I'm going to dream, I want to dream big!)   In a pinch, I'd settle for Ivo Pogorelich playing it before he went off the deep end.

OK, but why not wait for Jonathan Powell to perform it from Alexander Abercrombie's new typeset edition? He has already performed the first 13 of its 27 movements (in London last December) and is planning to première the entire piece some time next year.

Beast,

Alistair

[ahinton]

The great, late American soprano, Frances Yeend, who gave the first American performances of Puccini's "Turandot" at the New York City Opera, but earlier did legendary and unforgettable performances of this opera at the Arena Verona in Italy.

Okay, it's not the piano.  So sue me.

The woman had more talent than Sorabji, for goddsakes. 

So, on the "talent" front, you seek to compare a soprano with a composer; very intelligent and logical is that...

You invite members to sue you; do you have plenty of money?

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

I'd love to hear Gershwin play his rhapsody in Blue....

That would be good... I don't know if any recordings already exist, but if they do - then christ I want it.

[general disarray]

I thought the American premiere of Turandot was at the Met with Maria Jeritza in 1926.  Yeend would have been 13 at the time.  Or did Yeend give the first performance in English in the US?

Whatever, I'd give anything to hear a recording of Jeritza in Strauss's Die Frau or Korngold's Violanta.  She must have been a sight to behold. 

Edit: oops, you were only referring to the first performances of Turandot with NYCO.  Sorry. 

Yeend and the NYCO.  Yes.  She really revived this work in America to great acclaim.  Speaking of Korngold, I'd love to hear Lotte Lehmann as Heliane in "Das Wunder der Heliane."  Love that opera.

[ryguillian]

Pierre-Laurent Aimard playing Elliott Carter's Piano Concerto... and hey, it could actually happen...

[minor9th]

OK, but why not wait for Jonathan Powell to perform it from Alexander Abercrombie's new typeset edition? He has already performed the first 13 of its 27 movements (in London last December) and is planning to première the entire piece some time next year.

Beast,

Alistair

I'm sure it will be wonderful (his "OC" in NY was!), but both of those pianists play with a bit more fire and flair.

[general disarray]

So, on the "talent" front, you seek to compare a soprano with a composer; very intelligent and logical is that...

You invite members to sue you; do you have plenty of money?

Best,

Alistair

As for "intelligence," I won't put myself on the "bull's eye" of any flamer's target, so the verdict on that issue should remain undecided.  On the score of logic, yes I can speak to the logic of my comparison:  Frances Yeend was indeed a composer who sang many of her own art songs in recital.

As for the lawsuit, I don't have unlimited resources, but I come from a family of skilled litigators.   They take care of their own.

Best,

general disarray 

[thracozaag]

Busoni approached DG in 1921 to record all the WTC and his own Bach transcriptions; he was turned down.

Rachmaninoff and Horowitz approached RCA to record the Symphonic Dances and 2 Piano Suites--they were turned down.

Rachmaninoff offered to have RCA recording engineers accompany him to record his final US tour (where he performed, among other things, Chopin 3rd Sonata, Beethoven Op. 111, Schumann Fantasie, Liszt B minor and Dante Sonatas)--they declined his offer.

[drpiano]

Yes, it is painful that Busoni's WTC was never recorded.

I recall reading that Egon Petri recorded the Alkan solo concerto, but that it was somehow lost. (That would fall into the category of 'legendary recordings that were made but never released', but this thread now seems to be sufficiently broad.) I suppose that there remains some hope that it may be one day discovered, though I won't hold my breath. Still, given the quality of his recording of the Symphony, in what I understand to be informal circumstances, the Concerto would likely have become a legend.

I heard Radu Lupu play recently, and couldn't help but wish that he would one day record some late Scriabin (though I have no idea if he has played that music or has any interest in it.) His playing was visionary, liquid, and seemed to have a thousand gradations of quiet dynamics.

[thracozaag]

I'm still searching for Kapell's Tchaikovsky 1st, am completely convinced it was recorded from a live performance, just need to track it down.

[argerichfan]

I recall reading that Egon Petri recorded the Alkan solo concerto, but that it was somehow lost.

It is not lost.  Check out Pearl 9966. 'Egon Petri - Volume II'.  You'll find it there and have fun!

Myself, I wish Petri's recording of Liszt's Faust Waltz (with Busoni's cadenza) would finally make it to CD.  Incredible performance. 

Edit: oops, I meant Alkans' Symphonie, so you probably know about that.  Ecch, rather careless of me. 

[argerichfan]

Speaking of Korngold, I'd love to hear Lotte Lehmann as Heliane in "Das Wunder der Heliane."  Love that opera.

I love that opera too.  I really adore Korngold's music (even the Hollywood products), though Strauss ultimately had the greater talent, if not at the ridiculously early age of Korngold.  (That not seen since Mendelssohn!)  But generally Strauss's Die Frau ohne Schatten exceeds anything Korngold ultimately accomplished.  And that was from 1919.  We do need to keep the perspective. 

[drpiano]

When I read your post I was momentarily hopeful that I had missed a discovery! In fact, the Pearl Cd you mention contains a recording of the symphony- the same one I referred to in my original post.
As far as I can tell, the concerto remains lost.

[argerichfan]

As far as I can tell, the concerto remains lost.

Yeah, sorry for that!  A bit too impetuous of me. 

[learner of liszt]

Rachmaninoff playing the Alkan etudes Op. 35 and 39. If this recording existed, Gibbons and Hamelin wouldn't be nearlyas famous for their Alkan.

Apparently Rachmaninoff did play Alkan, but I guess he never took the time to record any.

[thracozaag]

Apparently Rachmaninoff did play Alkan, but I guess he never took the time to record any.

Cziffra as well.

[retrouvailles]

Rachmaninoff playing the Alkan etudes Op. 35 and 39. If this recording existed, Gibbons and Hamelin wouldn't be nearlyas famous for their Alkan.

I would beg to differ with you.

[argerichfan]

Cziffra as well.

Rudolf Serkin also?  Reportedly he admired Alkan's music, but claimed he didn't have the time to properly study it for performance.  Rather a pity... at least he gave us some Reger. 

[goldentone]

I'd love to hear Gershwin play his rhapsody in Blue....

That would be good... I don't know if any recordings already exist, but if they do - then christ I want it.

It does exist.  "Gershwin plays Gershwin."  I bought the tape several years ago, and it was quite something to hear Gershwin play Rhapsody and his other pieces and songs.  It should come up on Amazon.