schirmer editing

[nick]

I don't have a good copy of the Appasionata by Beethoven, and wondered if anyone can tell me if the metronome markings on first movement are Beethovens or the editor. They have different speeds with metronome speeds, like 126 for the fastest, then i think it is about 109 for other parts.  thanks!

Nick

[jabbz]

Beethoven provides no metronome marks for the sonata in question. You had might as well use Tovey's markings, or any good editor's.

[scottmcc]

there's only one beethoven sonata with metronome marks, the Hammerklavier, and those marks are sufficiently fast that a number of people have questioned the function of beethoven's metronome!  (andras schiff says that he has tested that metronome and it works fine)

you can download a decent edition of any of the beethoven sonatas for free from this website.  only trouble is you have to print it out.

[nick]

thanks for the responses! glad to hear that 126 was not beethovens numbers. man, that is too fast to not sound like a horse race.

Maurice

[jlh]

Beethoven provides no metronome marks for the sonata in question. You had might as well use Tovey's markings, or any good editor's.

Or Czerny's... 

[nick]

Since urtex is the editor shown for this site, what is your opinions on it's authenticity?

Nick

[jgallag]

Urtext is not an editor, it is a signification that (hopefully) the music printed is as close as possible to the original published manuscript by the composer.

For other reasons besides metronome markings, in addition to those, Schirmer is a bad idea. College professors (at least mine) will not accept Schirmer because they are student editions, and some make you wonder if the editor has played the piece before. For Beethoven I believe it's recommended to purchase G. Henle Verlag, which is also recommended for Bach, Haydn, and Mozart.

[nick]

why not go with as close to the original composers writing, like urtext?

Nick

[jgallag]

Henle is Urtext. The difference is that composers normally don't put fingerings in their scores, and Henle has a good urtext reputation as well as (usually) sensible fingerings.

[Bob]

Wasn't the metronome being developed during Beethoven's time?  So his numbers are off?  Or someone's tempo markings are off I remember.

There should be recommendations by composer somewhere on this site. 

Is urtext purely what the composer had in manuscript, transferring to print?  Or is it the educated guess of what the composer meant?  (Or both)

Because even if it's not what the composer wrote or intended, if everyone's doing that way, it's right from that perspective.  No editor markings, sure.  But are they messing with the notes? I see the information at the back of some pieces and wonder -- Is it what the composer wrote, or what they think the composer meant/intended?  And then you have Scarlatti who did mean dissonance from what I understand, but it doesn't appear to make sense on paper right away.

[nick]

ok thanks for the info. I like to figure my own fingerings so don't mind just getting what the composer wrote. Amazing how many pianists decided to play it the way they thought it should be!

Nick