How do I study orchestration.

[loonbohol]

If You think I am too novice for this.
I have studied Piano and has performed more than half-way of Chopin Etude No.11
I know how to play violin.
I know how to play guitar.
I know how play a drum.
I know how to compose.

So there is no reason why should not ask this question?

CAn you give me a good book or a site or a tip where I can study the art of Orchestration.
I have made one but REd notes are appearing on my SIbelius demo version.


for that reason  that I can Turn my low quality Kundiman's
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundiman.
into a sobbering Kajiurian(Kajiura Yuki) type orchestra.

Can you also give a good poetry tip.

MY Kundiman's are boring enough to be pasted here.
Guitars only  and BLAH BLAH BLAH.

I will provide my Bio-data in music so you can have something to suggest.
It might sound like a BRAG

PIANO SKILLS:
Duration:11 years (4 years under teacher).
SKill: 9 star
Pieces: 70

VIOLIN SKILL:

DURATION:2 years
Skill:novice
Pieces:6

GUITAR SKILL:
DUration:??

COMPOSITION:
12 kundimans
7 etudes
2 impromptu's
1 Waltz
1 badly orchestrated symphony.

[quantum]

I have this:
https://www.amazon.com/Instrumentation-Orchestration-Alfred-Blatter/dp/0028645707
Very detailed descriptions of instruments and their uses.


Also this but I see it is now out of print. 
https://www.amazon.com/Orchestration-Music-Joseph-F-Wagner/dp/0070676550

[jabbz]

I have the Blatter, it is really quite good.

[Bob]

Have actual people play your stuff and take note of what works and doesn't.

Study others' works in terms of orchestration.  I've heard Tchaikovsky mentioned a lot for this for orchestra.

Books.

Sibelius has some kind of free online training for orchestration.  I looked into once but that was it.

Don't get too wrapped up with Sibelius.  It's just a computer program.  Just because it gives you red notes doesn't mean it's absolutely wrong.  And don't trust its playback -- That's not real life.  Keep in mind the people who wrote it and designed it might be thinking more computer and less music.  Don't let software dictate what you composer.  Someone had to decide what notes the software considers right and wrong and who knows what they based that on. 

Keep your ears open.  When you hear a sound you like, figure out what went into creating it and you might be able to use it useful later.

[loonbohol]

Fine,
I do not know how to tune a clarinet.
When I play a Do note on a clarinet, It would not sound the DO note on the piano.  And so is re,mi,fa,sol,la,ti.
A clarinet player even said that he knows that he is playing DO.

How do you tune up a clarinet?

THat is the reason why when I let 5 people play their instruments.
It's a complete mismatch of worst tone.
THe clarinet is wrongly tuned.
THe French horn is wrongly tuned.

CRAP, I do not know what's blatter.
But the Violins and the Flute came fine.

[quantum]

The clarinet and french horn are what we call transposing instruments.  The piano is a concert pitch instrument - this means when you play C you hear C. 

Clarinet is in Bb - This means when The Clarinet is playing a C you will hear it as a Bb on the piano.  Because this instrument sounds 1 whole tone lower than concert pitch, parts for it are notated 1 whole tone higher than concert pitch so it will match with all other instruments.  Eg: when you write a piece in C major, the Bb Clarinet will be playing in D major. 

There is also another commonly used clarinet in A (one semitone lower that the Bb clarinet).  On this instrument when you play C, you will hear an A. This instrument is a minor third lower than concert pitch.  Therefore its music is written a minor third above concert pitch.  When you write a piece in C major, the A Clarinet will be playing in Eb major. 

The French horn is in F and sounds a perfect 5th lower than concert pitch. 


Alfred Blatter is the name of the person who wrote an excellent orchestration book.  You should go check your library for a copy.  All this matter of transposing instruments is explained in detail. 


Go look at some orchestral scores.  It is likely you will see the instrument parts written in the key that the performer sees on his/her part.


There are some Beethoven full scores here if you want to see:
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,32144.0.html 

[Bob]

Tuning and transposition are different.  I don't think a composer needs to know all the particulars about tuning an instrument (unless that's their thing for composition).

The nice thing is low pitched instruments and strings are C usually.  For band, you only have to worry about Bb, Eb, and A instruments, and most are sounding below the note they read.  It's not as confusing as it might appear at first.

There are some saying that are helpful...
Sound a (written) C, plays its key.
Plays it key, sounds a (written) C.
So if a Bb clarinet plays its written C, it will sound its key -- Bb.  If it plays it's written Bb, it will sound a C. 

And if you get confused about whether it's higher or low, most are lower, but think about the length of the instrument.  Bb, A, C clarinets... You can see which one is shorter and know its playing higher or lower.

[quantum]

There are some saying that are helpful...
Sound a (written) C, plays its key.
Plays it key, sounds a (written) C.
So if a Bb clarinet plays its written C, it will sound its key -- Bb.  If it plays it's written Bb, it will sound a C. 

Not familiar with the saying, but you may wish to revise the second half of it.  In order to sound Concert C, a Bb clarinet needs to play D. 

[Bob]

Yeah.  Oops.  If it plays its written Bb, it sounds an Ab.

Should have been...
If it plays(sounds) a C (concert), it would read as a Bb. 

Too much for late night.  I thought that saying worked both ways.  "Play a C, sound your key."    I guess the reverse would be... Sound your key, play a (written) C, but that sounds too backwards.  I think that's right though.  I suppose if you can get an instrument to sound a C, you'd have the fingering (or an alternate) for C. 

I guess I should have written...
Original: Play a C, sound your key.
More specific: Read a written C, sound your key (concert).
Backwards:  Sound your key (concert), that's a written C.

Not much point turning the saying around backwards though.

Ouch.  I must be losing it.

[simon_horsey]

Have a look at this website...

https://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=39

Principles Of Orchestration by Rimsky-Korsakov... online, interactive, audio samples demonstrating the theory... an excellent resource.

[tyler_johnson]

Yeah, what simon_horsey said.  That is my bible right there for orchestration, I was about to post that but he got to it first.

[loonbohol]

Sorry but I was not here for a long time due to the Periodical Exam.

THat is my problem all the time.
You have not told me.

THis should be the time that I will recompose my First symphony.
Is there still something that I missed.

Yes, I kinda downloaded a version of beethoven Symphony No.5

And kindly listen to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2VSfb-v-0k

about the 0:53~1:05 part of the video
It is not a stacatto.
I think that it is not possible to notate in the violin tablature.
THe Sibelius program produced fluid and straight sounds.

[jabbz]

Don't rely on Sibelius to let you hear your work, it is only there to notate. Students really shouldn't use Sibelius at all.

[mc_shas]

Samuel Adler's 'the study of orchestration' is my bible!! If you can afford to buy the CD's as well it's incredible and very complete (I have the third edition which i think is still the most recent). He's obviously tremendously well versed on things like Rimsky Korsakov's treaties of Orchestration (and didn't Ravel write a famous one as well or something?) Anyway, I think it's the best on the market at the moment. Obviously I haven't read everything but i've read quite a bit and it was also highly recommended to me by my orchestration tutor during my BA.

sorry if someone already mentioned it as I didn't read all the posts but it did do a word search for it and it didn't come up. lol. Have fun anyway.