Are we "hard-wired" for melody?

[cmg]

Debates often rage here over modernist music, most particularly those pieces that break totally from traditional tonality.  The consenus, for the most part, seems to be that while this music is worthy of our attention, it has difficulty in winning a place in the repertoire and our hearts.

Elliott Carter comes to mind, since I recall a post by ahinton, a great Carter admirer, who admitted to needing many more listenings to a particular composition of Carter's before he could fathom its intent.  Why is that?  Another poster admitted to finding a recent live performance of Carter's string quartets a rather gruelling experience, despite his intense appreciation for the composer.

So, this leads to my point:  A writer in "Gramophone" recently wondered if our inability to fall in love with much of the "atonal" repertoire is based simply on our centuries of exposure to the traditional harmonic system.  "Hard-wired," as it were, to only be able to appreciate that which is tonal.

Or, is it more simple than that?  Is it only that a memorable melody is what brings us back again and again to a composition?

This idea struck me when I was listening to the recent Hyperion recording of the Felix Draeseke "Piano Concerto in E-flat Major".  Two listenings were more than enough for me to determine that the thematic content (melodies) were uninspired and difficult even to remember.  Because of that, and despite the expert writing for piano and orchestra, I really don't want to hear the piece again.

So, is an unforgettable melody or theme the thing that really draws us back to certain pieces time and again?  Is the attractive theme the hook that pulls us in and its dramatic  development the thing that keeps us there?  Does this mean, atonal works with "themes" very difficult to remember, let alone hum in the shower, are doomed to extinction? 

Any ideas out there?

[Petter]

Arvo Pärt is enormously popular with the public, and thereīs not many distinguishable melodies in his music that you hum in the shower. At least not that I've heard.

[cmg]

Arvo Pärt is enormously popular with the public, and thereīs not many distinguishable melodies in his music that you hum in the shower. At least not that I've heard.

True!  So are Glass and Adams, and all are traditionally tonal, which might account for part of their popularity, but will their music stand the test of time without great tunes?

As for the "atonalists" who have withstood the test of time, such as Schoenberg, I wonder if that is the result of his being embraced by academia, which has insisted since the 1950s that composers must adopt this new language, despite the general public's resistance.  In Boulez's case, he has had a stranglehold on art subsidies and avant-garde musical fashion in France, which might account for his works still being performed and recorded here and there.  God knows there ain't no tunes.

Berg seems to have some affection for his operas that have atonal aspects, but still reach for melody in the big climactic moments ("Wozzeck," for example.)

[thalbergmad]

Is it only that a memorable melody is what brings us back again and again to a composition?

Speaking for myself, that is definately a factor, but perhaps some peoples brains remember phrases that i would forget immediately.

Thal

[Petter]

The ideas of Bartok and Schoenberg is very much alive in Hollywood film music to convey certain emotions. Maybe thatīs part of the reason itīs seldom listened to in comparison since itīs usually in horror scenes or scenes with lots of tension. Unconsciously we relate to something unpleasant. Pardon my pseudo psychological analysis.  

[anda]

i think i am. i often listen to contemporary works, and i think i got to the point where i can differentiate the "random atonal banging" from "valuable atonal banging" and i also enjoy playing contemporary works that lack melody and harmony. nevertheless, i'll always prefer to leave the concert hall with that simple melodic line haunting me for days. and i don't think these atonal a-melodic new works (even the best of them!) will ever be as loved as a rachmaninoff, or chopin, or beethoven (so on, so on).

all the above, imho

edit: bartok and schonberg (and strawinsky) wrote atonal music - but not a-melodic.

[general disarray]

The ideas of Bartok and Schoenberg is very much alive in Hollywood film music to convey certain emotions. Maybe thatīs part of the reason itīs seldom listened to in comparison since itīs usually in horror scenes or scenes with lots of tension. Unconsciously we relate to something unpleasant. Pardon my pseudo psychological analysis.  

I think this is a great analysis.  I had a composition prof who said that atonal music found a home in shlocky TV shows years ago.  He always felt that if atonal music were ever able to break down our resistance to it, it would have to be through constant exposure this way.  Well, let's wait and see!

[Petter]

Like this scene with the spiders. The sound effects and dialog kinda covers it though.   

[goldentone]

The ideas of Bartok and Schoenberg is very much alive in Hollywood film music to convey certain emotions. Maybe thatīs part of the reason itīs seldom listened to in comparison since itīs usually in horror scenes or scenes with lots of tension. Unconsciously we relate to something unpleasant. Pardon my pseudo psychological analysis.  

I think the reason it is used for creating tension is because that is exactly what it does.   

[oxy60]

Yes, but only certain melodies seem to stick. Could it be we are drawn to the intervals? Some study was done somewhere about how humans respond to certain chords and that thirds, fourths, fifths and octaves got the most positive reaction. Maybe that reaction stems from the natural overtones produced by a fixed pipe (alpine horns, etc.).

[jinr]

In most pieces that have a melody, the melody is usually repeated many times, and in many different varations and alterations; so I think you are more likely to remember it.

I think we are not 'hard wired' for melody as it were; I think we are just hard wired for anything that is repeated endlessly.

[thalbergmad]

Could it be we are drawn to the intervals? Some study was done somewhere about how humans respond to certain chords and that thirds, fourths, fifths and octaves got the most positive reaction.

I think you have a very valid point.

When i was very young, i used to climb onto the piano stool and make little tunes out of thirds and fifths. They are surely the most pleasing.

Thal

[pies]

more like barb-wired for melody, lmao, lmao, lmao.

[jinr]

more like barb-wired for melody, lmao, lmao, lmao.

[webern78]

So, this leads to my point:  A writer in "Gramophone" recently wondered if our inability to fall in love with much of the "atonal" repertoire is based simply on our centuries of exposure to the traditional harmonic system.  "Hard-wired," as it were, to only be able to appreciate that which is tonal.

You can find many examples of tonal-leaning melodies in pre-tonal western music, so it is more likely to be biological.

The nurture over nature idea perpetrated by the social Marxists is very pertinent here. Every single attempt at social engineering that has stemmed from this theory has led to disastrous consequences and atonal music has lead to similar results in terms of the development of our western musical tradition.

[webern78]

The ideas of Bartok and Schoenberg is very much alive in Hollywood film music to convey certain emotions. Maybe thatīs part of the reason itīs seldom listened to in comparison since itīs usually in horror scenes or scenes with lots of tension. Unconsciously we relate to something unpleasant. Pardon my pseudo psychological analysis.  

Bartok in not atonal.

[oxy60]

I saw the two hour documentary last night on PBS (USA) made by the National Science Foundation about this very thread/subject. Has anyone else seen this show? Do you have some thoughts about it?