I'm a horrible pianist.

[fxc]

I want to give up. Ive been playing for around five years now, all without a teacher. I haven't accomplished any of my goals. I can't play any moderately difficult passage with consistency. I seem to be able to memorize only by rote. It takes me forever to memorize even simple things. I can't 'polish up' a piece no matter how hard I try. I have next to no understanding of music theory. I simply don't have the talent.

Why shouldn't I give up?

[jlh]

I want to give up. Ive been playing for around five years now, all without a teacher. I haven't accomplished any of my goals. I can't play any moderately difficult passage with consistency. I seem to be able to memorize only by rote. It takes me forever to memorize even simple things. I can't 'polish up' a piece no matter how hard I try. I have next to no understanding of music theory. I simply don't have the talent.

Why shouldn't I give up?

Well the first thing that comes immediately to mind is that:

You've been trying to do it all without any guidance at all!

If you don't have someone to help you as your teacher what did you expect to accomplish?

[javacisnotrecognized]

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=1627;sa=showPosts;start=5050

Start reading all of his posts; by the time you've gotten to 200 or so you should have an entirely new idea of how it all works.


Be prepared to take alot of notes.

[tds]

I want to give up. Ive been playing for around five years now, all without a teacher. I haven't accomplished any of my goals. I can't play any moderately difficult passage with consistency. I seem to be able to memorize only by rote. It takes me forever to memorize even simple things. I can't 'polish up' a piece no matter how hard I try. I have next to no understanding of music theory. I simply don't have the talent.

Why shouldn't I give up?

yup, try to find a teacher. but as for the bad feeling, ur not alone, me terrible too..

[go12_3]

Hi fxc:
I know how it feels about being a horrible pianist.  I have days I wonder why I can't get my fingers to do what I want them to do in a piece.  Lately, I am having a hard time with the first part of Debussy's First Arabesque it seems that I  run over this passage over and over.  It gets discouraging that I look at a piece and it's full of notes all over the pages    and so I have to mentally think, "I can play this one day,  but I know it will take time and effort."  I can work on a new piece for months, and still it won't come together. ( I wonder if some of the members here feel this way about some of their pieces and feel discouraged----amateures, students, teachers and professionals. ) But the one thing that keeps me playing my piano, is the beauty of the music and that in itself is rewarding. I don't play everything polished during the learning process, but eventually the pieces I play will make more sense and each day I think, yes, I will always enjoy learning and playing piano!   

fxc,  I know you would want to give up but keep on trying and find a teacher who will give you the pieces that you feel you can accomplish.  Never doubt yourself, and think that you have no talent.  You have given playing piano a chance for 5 years, now you can continue to progress. 

Best of luck and good wishes!

go12_3

[richard black]

Yeah, give up. If you miss it, come back! Sometimes you don't know whether you really want a thing until you've been deprived of it for a while.

[keypeg]

Hi fxs,
There is a tricky bit to learning to play an instrument.  It's not about learning to play any piece, but getting at the tools you need to be able to play.  If you take lessons from a good teacher, he or she will lead you to do things which you have not thought about, and don't seem important or pertinent.  But those things will give you the tools which will eventually get you to be able to play well.  The piece is almost secondary.  You yourself get shaped as part of an instrument.  It is not about "talent" - it's about getting the skills and knowledge you need.

Look at how baseball players train.  They throw the ball back and forth to each other.  A visual artist might study anatomy and know how all the bones and muscles fit together so that they can visualize the people they are painting from every conceivable angle.  It is not just "talent".  There are specific things which are taught in rougly a specific order.  If you don't get those tools, how do you expect to be able to play well?

KS

[allthumbs]

Sounds like a troll to me.

[thierry13]

If you only have what it takes to butcher music, then stop.

[conmoto]

If you only have what it takes to butcher music, then stop.

Classical music clearly isn't the most popular in the world at present.  This is no longer the day of Mozart and bourgeois salons.  Classical music is more of a niche endeavor than a mainstream one, and elitist statements like this one could rightly be one of the causes. 

No, most people with an interest in the piano are not at the level of Horowitz, Rubinstein - few are in fact.  Yes, to people with the highest level of training, someone who is just starting out could be considered an annoying and incompetent juvenile, however it's really a matter of perspective.  I have a feeling, Thierry, that Mozart or Beethoven would consider you the same, even if you have trained at the best conservatories.

This kind of rude elitism is one of the reasons that classical music is not accepted in the mainstream.  People who have a genuine love for the piano, or any classical instrument, but lack the training are often ridiculed and teased.  It makes perfect sense to me that they would reject the artform in it's entirety, if nothing else than to avoid the pompous exclusivity with which it reeks.

As someone who loves classical music, particularly at the highest level of performance, I understand the desire to have the works of the great composers played at the most elevated level, however there are few in this world who can do their works justice, and once one starts down the slippery slope of deciding who can and who cannot make music, there is no return. 

It would be far more constructive to attempt to educate newly interested enthusiasts towards a better approach than to suggest that they quit entirely.  One must remember as well, that even the greats of the piano had to start at the beginning.  If everyone who played at a mediocre or poor level were to stop today, there would very little classical music left in the world.

Classical music is on the decline and the vast majority of people in the world can name more Britney Spears songs than they can Beethoven symphonies, even considering the fact that the latter are numbered.  Condescending and arrogant attitudes from more accomplished classical musicians will not help this cause at all.

[thierry13]

Classical is in decline because population and humanity is in decline. People aren't intelligent enough to like it, or simply people don't want to put the effort into understanding it anymore, they want it to be easy, since nowadays everything is made easier, and it simply WON'T be easier, so they listen to crappy, easy and simple music. Yes, elitist comments like mine is a reason why less and less people like classical music. BUT, should it be different? Should we let stupid people butcher it, play it badly, just to make it more accessible? I don't think so. Classical music should stay up there for those who can make something out of it, and for people who truly appreciate what it is.

[allthumbs]

Sounds like a troll to me.

Perhaps further elucidation is needed.

Definition:
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

For further info check out

https://www.flayme.com/troll/

https://curezone.com/forums/troll.asp

https://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-an-internet-troll.htm

[goldentone]

fxc, only until you find a teacher will you discover what you can do at the piano.

[db05]

It sounds to me that your real problem is being confused and tired of all those things. BREATHE! Quit piano, music, whatever it is that's stressing you and find the things you enjoy.

And when you're at it learning again, don't forget to take frequent breaks.

Best of luck to you!

[allthumbs]

People.... fxc read the first six posts and hasn't been back since. He joined at 12:30 am, first and only post at 12:37 and was last here at 09:00.

Figure it out.

[db05]

People.... fxc read the first six posts and hasn't been back since. He joined at 12:30 am, first and only post at 12:37 and was last here at 09:00.

Figure it out.

He's turned emo and decided to kill himself? OMG What have we done?! 

[allthumbs]

He's turned emo and decided to kill himself? OMG What have we done?! 

Possibly, he hasn't neen back yet.

[lau]

Should we let stupid people butcher it, play it badly, just to make it more accessible?

i think we should, i would rather have someone listen to a sick performance than not hear it. It would bring exposure. I think one would be smart enough to know it could be performed better, but that's obviously not always the case, but if the performance really sucked then they would probably know.

if one sucks at piano and makes everything sick aka "butchers" music, i think they should still perform. Usually those nonmusician people enjoy the performance anyway, they don't know what it could be. So, it would bring exposure for an uprising in the classical genre.

[kelly_kelly]

Should we let stupid people butcher it, play it badly, just to make it more accessible?

Nobody's suggesting that bad musicians should perform at concert halls, but they should be encouraged to play for their own private enjoyment. I know I'm not a good musician, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed near the instrument...

[perfect_pitch]

Classical is in decline because population and humanity is in decline. People aren't intelligent enough to like it, or simply people don't want to put the effort into understanding it anymore, they want it to be easy, since nowadays everything is made easier, and it simply WON'T be easier, so they listen to crappy, easy and simple music.

THANK GOD - A SMART PERSON ON THIS FORUM!!!! It's sad to think that the backbone of our Western Music is practically forgotten while 4 chord songs are strummed repetitively while backed with a boring drum beat and making millions of dollars.

[lau]

THANK GOD - A SMART PERSON ON THIS FORUM!!!! 

i thought everyone here knew that.

[allthumbs]

I want to give up. I've been playing for around fifty years now, all without a teacher. I haven't accomplished any of my goals. As a matter of fact, I've accomplished less than before I started. I can't play any passages at all with consistency. I seem to be able to memorize only by rote and then it is only three notes at a time. It takes me forever and three thousand days after that to memorize even the simplest things. I can't 'polish up' a piece no matter how hard I try. I have next to no understanding of music theory. No I take that back; I have absolutely no understanding of music. I don't even know what a quarter note is.

I simply don't have the talent, but do you think all this is an impediment to me playing at Carnage Hall in a year or so...

Why shouldn't I give up?

I really desperately need your help or I'm going to die of sadness and longing.

Please help me so I can achieve my goal of being a concert pianist.

I am waiting for your heart-felt replies.

[go12_3]

Oh My!   Oh, my Gosh!         
We  need to  help you from dying of sadness! 
But, you cannot give up!  Not ever!   And keep GO-ing at it! 
There, there!  Somewhere inside of you there is hidden talent!   
Oh,  oh,  do not despair!  There is help coming your way!

[Petter]

Allthumbs, I think you simply should give up since all the people in the world are too dumb to appreciate the music which you try to master. It´s simply not worth it considered that our world is declining and we´re on the brink of the death of western civilization, it´s as easy as that.

[richard black]

playing at Carnage Hall

 

[allthumbs]

playing at Carnage Hall

and it would be if I played there.

[knabe31]

There is but one simple solution to your problem. Get yourself a GOOD qualified teacher. This will open up new doors to you in your musical endevors. Everyone needs guidance to learn just about anything. I guarantee it will make a huge difference for you as it did for me. Good luck to you. Please don't give up until you have tried with a teacher.

[allthumbs]

There is but one simple solution to your problem. Get yourself a GOOD qualified teacher. This will open up new doors to you in your musical endevors. Everyone needs guidance to learn just about anything. I guarantee it will make a huge difference for you as it did for me. Good luck to you. Please don't give up until you have tried with a teacher.

It's no use, I've already quit and taken up the electric bagpipes.

[lostinidlewonder]

You don't play music to be good, you play it because you like to and find enjoyment in it. You NEVER stop getting annoyed with how stupid you can be at the piano no matter what level you get to. As soon as you get content you will stop getting better. You must be a masochist Don't compare yourself to others, it is a waste of time and just ends up bothering you a lot. If it is no fun then give up, why do something that gives you no enjoyment.

[rc]

Classical is in decline because population and humanity is in decline. People aren't intelligent enough to like it, or simply people don't want to put the effort into understanding it anymore, they want it to be easy, since nowadays everything is made easier

It's become such a common critique of society, because it's true, but I read some old books and I get the impression it's always been true.  People have other interests, we can't expect everybody to have the curiousity to make time to explore 400 years of music.  I could pick any random person in a crowd and they will probably have some favorite field where I would be completely ignorant.  No I don't think humanity is in decline, I think it's the same as it's always been...  and after reading many comments on the internet, I find it gets tedious to always be criticising society.  Far more productive to concern with our own behavior - we're all part of that same society anyways, and the only person we can really control is ourselves.  After a point complaining about others becomes only self righteous hot air.

Sometimes within our own little niche we can become narrowsighted and not see the value of other types of music.  I'm listening to some Leonard Cohen, the music itself is nothing amazing, but the way it fits with the poetic lyrics is beautiful.  I don't want to become blind to this.

should it be different? Should we let stupid people butcher it, play it badly, just to make it more accessible? I don't think so. Classical music should stay up there for those who can make something out of it, and for people who truly appreciate what it is.

In one sense I don't mind elitism - the sense that some things are better than others.  Often we hear the idea that everything is subjective, but with certain criteria some things are definitely better than others - elite.  Not something to pretend doesn't exist, but something to always aspire to.

But when you come to the conclusion that people who play badly are stupid I think you are showing your ignorance about people.  I doubt anybody sat down and was immediately good at anything.  There's a learning curve, and for a lot of people going out and screwing up is an important step towards getting good.  Actually I've come to think that being comfortable with screwing up is a very important attitude for improvement.  The attitude of not doing something unless we're already good at it is counter productive, nobody would ever get good if they didn't first have the courage to suck.

So here we have a fellow who created an account expressing the longing to be good, and I can relate because that's what I began with (even IF it was a troll, it's a common enough sentiment to be worth commenting on).  There is a place in the world for people of lesser talent.  For some it may be a beloved hobby, for others it may develop into something more.  Have you ever seen the early efforts of masters?  They weren't very impressive to begin with either.  For that reason I will always fight the attitude of denigrating anyones efforts, imagine if such words would discourage somebody from trying...  Those words would be a disservice to the art itself.

[thierry13]

But when you come to the conclusion that people who play badly are stupid I think you are showing your ignorance about people.  I doubt anybody sat down and was immediately good at anything.  There's a learning curve, and for a lot of people going out and screwing up is an important step towards getting good.  Actually I've come to think that being comfortable with screwing up is a very important attitude for improvement.  The attitude of not doing something unless we're already good at it is counter productive, nobody would ever get good if they didn't first have the courage to suck.

I don't come to the conclusion that people who play badly are stupid. I come to the conclusion that if someone STILL plays badly after years of dedication, THEN he is stupid. And it's not having talent or whatever, ANYBODY (intelligent) should be able to achieve something decent in any field of activity with years of dedication, or with years of regular study/practice. I call stupid those who can't follow this learning curve you describe.

And I am 100% against exposure of bad performances. It simply is not worth it. It's as if I recorded the first attempt of Richter at playing something at the piano at let's say 5 years old, and tell you : Hey, that's Richter! Great huh? ... It simply would NOT be Richter. Well, letting stupid people play classical music in exposure is the same thing, it simply is NOT classical music.

[quasimodo]

Well, letting stupid people play classical music in exposure is the same thing, it simply is NOT classical music.

I suppose that the application of that principle is the reason why no one on this forum has never heard you play 

[rc]

Ok, those are reasonable ideals.  But I still think in this case you're making a lot of assumptions. 

We don't know if the fellows goals were reasonable to begin with.  Hell after 5 years I still haven't attained my original goals, because my goals were to play Beethovens Tempest and Waldstein.

We don't know what he considers to be difficult that he can't play consistantly.

We don't know that those years were so dedicated.

When I plug those ideals into my experiences of the real world, I don't think there's much worry of somebody who can't play getting much exposure, heh.  Anyways back to your original reply:

If you only have what it takes to butcher music, then stop.

Rather than stop, try something else.  Post on a forum and get some direction to get on the right path...  Possibly there HAS been 5 years worth of improvement but the ideals aren't realistic (so a person thinks they haven't gotten anywhere when in fact they have).  Possibly piano just isn't high enough of a priority for the goals, then the solution is just to acknowledge that and modify the goals.

I really see no reason why someone who wants to play music should ever stop.

[thierry13]

Ok, those are reasonable ideals.  But I still think in this case you're making a lot of assumptions. 

We don't know if the fellows goals were reasonable to begin with.  Hell after 5 years I still haven't attained my original goals, because my goals were to play Beethovens Tempest and Waldstein.

We don't know what he considers to be difficult that he can't play consistantly.

We don't know that those years were so dedicated.

When I plug those ideals into my experiences of the real world, I don't think there's much worry of somebody who can't play getting much exposure, heh.  Anyways back to your original reply:

Rather than stop, try something else.  Post on a forum and get some direction to get on the right path...  Possibly there HAS been 5 years worth of improvement but the ideals aren't realistic (so a person thinks they haven't gotten anywhere when in fact they have).  Possibly piano just isn't high enough of a priority for the goals, then the solution is just to acknowledge that and modify the goals.

I really see no reason why someone who wants to play music should ever stop.

Hey, I never said the original poster should stop, I only affirmed that if he only had what it takes to butcher music, then he should stop. Note the "if", and not " YOU SHOULD IMPERATIVELY STOP, KNOWING AS A FACT THAT YOU ACTUALLY SUCK ".

[allthumbs]

Hey, I never said the original poster should stop, I only affirmed that if he only had what it takes to butcher music, then he should stop. Note the "if", and not " YOU SHOULD IMPERATIVELY STOP, KNOWING AS A FACT THAT YOU ACTUALLY SUCK ".

Not to belabour the obvious, but the original poster was a troll who wasn't interested in any of responses given.

I'm sure he's been viewing this topic as a guest and is bemused at all the advice he has elicited.

[chopinthemaestro]

If it is true....then please give up and reduce acoustic shock- syndrome disorder amongst fellow human beings as clearly if you think you're terrible, then most probably you are even worse!!! 

Seriously, you should play music because you love to play music. From your post, it doesn't seem that you do love playing all that much and therefore, perhaps you should consider alternative hobbies such as tiddly-winks or dominoes perhaps fishing if you like fish!! 

Peace and love to all...................

[rc]

Hey, I never said the original poster should stop, I only affirmed that if he only had what it takes to butcher music, then he should stop. Note the "if", and not " YOU SHOULD IMPERATIVELY STOP, KNOWING AS A FACT THAT YOU ACTUALLY SUCK ".

Well we must have some communication breakdown, because my response would be the same: "if you only have what it takes to butcher music, try again".  and so we're stuck in a loop.

Ah well.  OP doesn't seem to be around anyways.

[giannalinda]

Im sure you arent

[suntan]

why shouldn't you give up???
 you should know this by yourself, you should know what you want
if you like it and enjoy it then go and find a teacher because it will be easier for you and you will know what to do
but you are full of doubts if you really want it then change your attitude
noone can help you with this and you don't have to be so talented - that's not all

[giannalinda]

why shouldn't you give up???
 you should know this by yourself, you should know what you want
if you like it and enjoy it then go and find a teacher because it will be easier for you and you will know what to do
but you are full of doubts if you really want it then change your attitude
noone can help you with this and you don't have to be so talented - that's not all

You dont just give up if its hard for you to find a teacher or your not talented...my mom would scream at me if i thought of giving something up just because of that...

[suntan]

You know that he/she should get a teacher. Just there is a risk that he can learn bad habbits. It will be even more fun to play the pieces right. And of course talent is not everything. Will and patience is important. Even the most talented people can be bad without will and interest in playing.

[giannalinda]

You know that he/she should get a teacher. Just there is a risk that he can learn bad habbits. It will be even more fun to play the pieces right. And of course talent is not everything. Will and patience is important. Even the most talented people can be bad without will and interest in playing.

I dont know...all i know is you shouldnt give up on it if its getting hard. there is a risk that they will get bad habbits, but just get a good teacher so u wont. Or try harder not to

[thierry13]

You dont just give up if its hard for you to find a teacher or your not talented...my mom would scream at me if i thought of giving something up just because of that...

Well your mom has no artistic moral. She only thinks about you.

[giannalinda]

Well your mom has no artistic moral. She only thinks about you.

Isnt that wat shes suppossed to do?

[jannismakris]

I've been playing for around fifty years now

Well 'fifty' or five?  In my opinion you should get some guidance. I play from the age of 4 now I am 17 and I still have teachers. I believe that there is always more to learn and it helps a lot to have another pianist guiding you. Because you didn't have a teacher, you might not have learned the proper techniques.

Anyway I don't want to say too much as I am only 17.

[healdie]

Classical is in decline because population and humanity is in decline. People aren't intelligent enough to like it, or simply people don't want to put the effort into understanding it anymore, they want it to be easy, since nowadays everything is made easier, and it simply WON'T be easier, so they listen to crappy, easy and simple music. Yes, elitist comments like mine is a reason why less and less people like classical music. BUT, should it be different? Should we let stupid people butcher it, play it badly, just to make it more accessible? I don't think so. Classical music should stay up there for those who can make something out of it, and for people who truly appreciate what it is.

people don't want to understand music or not the average listener anyway, and i know plenty of intelligent people who dislike classical music for that exact reason music should be a brief escape from reality, as Schopenhaur wrote art is the only for the will to excape the demands of desire and music is the best way to do this.

and i don't believe that people are not as intelligent as they once were, music is now more complex than ever before, because we are constantly adding new rules and discovering newer harmonic form without discarding the old ones so composers now have so much more to learn

[giannalinda]

Well 'fifty' or five?  In my opinion you should get some guidance. I play from the age of 4 now I am 17 and I still have teachers. I believe that there is always more to learn and it helps a lot to have another pianist guiding you. Because you didn't have a teacher, you might not have learned the proper techniques.

Anyway I don't want to say too much as I am only 17.

I agree...you always can learn more...like my grandmother...she died at 87 and she was still learning...she was a MENZA member too

[don largo]

I had a girlfriend a long time ago who became angry at me one day because I had put on a cassette of Rubinstein playing Chopin--her cassette!  I inquired of her, most politely, what her objection to the music was, given that we both knew that she liked that recording.  She responded, angrily, that she couldn't ignore it, that it demanded too much attention. 

In context, she was raised on AM radio and AM radio is all about background noise.  It is important to realize that many people experience music on different levels and for different motivations.  If you want to point the finger somewhere, I would suggest attacking the educational system rather than the intelligence of the population (as questionable as it may be).

On the other hand, my (expletive deleted) piano teacher who was born with a poker up his back, used to tell me that you shouldn't play something if it isn't going to be as good as it ever will be.  Does this even make sense?  No!  It does explain why all of this teacher's students are confused and bitter and can hardly enjoy playing any longer. 

The attraction to music began when I was very small.  I really don't know why I play, I just do.  It isn't for the audience and it certainly isn't for my own personal aggrandizement.