Problem with playing loud

[kuba_s]

Hi everyone,

I started playing piano 6 months ago. About 2 months ago, I decided to get a teacher (I only used books and video tutorials before that), as I feared I might have been doing something wrong without even knowing it, thus developing bad habits.

To my surprise, the teacher said I hadn't made any mistakes, and that the only problem he can see is that I am not playing loud enough.

This wasn't really news to me, as I wasn't happy about it myself, but whenever I tried to play any louder, my hands would start to tense.

I believe that my fingers just aren't ready yet, and that I need to wait until they are (as suggested by C.C. Chang, I avoid all kinds of strength excercises, and I already feel that my fingers are getting more delicate and can move faster). But my teacher's point of view is very different. He basically forces me to play louder, beyond the point where I can keep my hands relaxed.

I tried to speak to him about it, but he explained that I shouldn't be so worried about the tension, because even the best pianists tense sometimes, and that I need to learn to deal with it (which to me sounds like "you need to learn to play with the tension, just in case you tense during a performance")

So, is he right? Should I really go beyond the point where I can play relaxed? I mean, I'd really like to play louder (my forte sounds like his piano), but I just don't feel comfortable when I try to.

Thanks in advance for any advise.

[javacisnotrecognized]

"Tension" is a very misunderstood subject - think of it like this: Muscular effort that doesn't lead to some kind of motion is tension. So you need to exert muscular effort for the instant that you are going to play the keys, and after that you can drop it immediately back to zero (Or close to zero - don't ease up so much that the keys come back up) It is like a burst, then it quickly subsides.

What you want to avoid, basically, is a situation where they keys are already down, but you're still pressing on them.

[go12_3]

kuba_s:
Try relaxing through your arms from the shoulders on down to your finger tips will enable you to play more loudly, especially with arm weight,  which enables you to press into the keys more.  You don't need to push the keys with force, just use your ears and listen for the tone in which the arm weight will bring out.  My piano instructor, who was a professor,  while I was attending college as a piano performance major, demostrated this arm weight:  he raised both his arms slightly up and released them down upon the keys(while his hands were slightly in a fist) in which produced volume upon the keys where his hands landed; but there was no force to make this volume, it was totally from the weight of his arms!  It took me awhile to understand this concept, but once I understood it, then playing loud or soft was not as difficult to do. Therefore,  the volume comes naturally through the arms, hands and fingertips.  Also, after playing piano for awhile, shake your hands and arms on occasion, that releases muscle tension, whenever you feel your arms, hands and fingers tense up.
 

[8426]

What was of great use to me was to disassociate the normal concept of forte.

Instead of remembering the tension you had to have for a forte, imagine a piano.

This will be easier to understand once you sit down and try this.

First play as softly as you can, then imagine/remember how it felt when you played the "piano" (soft). It felt kind of soft didn't it? Then when you want to make the forte, you imagine the "soft sensation" while you play the forte. Imagine the highest point of "softness" (or highest point of relaxation) as you produce your biggest forte.

I am not sure exactly where I got this, it was probably from Fraser. BUT it has helped me very much, especially this following truth.

The pressure or tension contained in your arm does not affect the sound. It is the velocity of the finger/arm/wrist when it falls. It is possible that through your tension you are able to fall with a high velocity but this will probably lead to injury.

So as you play, have a "uniform" feeling while either playing a forte or a piano, remembering to "fall" with velocity, instead of the normal tension for forte.

Some points I made are probably not too clear, tell me where and I will try to clear them up.
If someone else knows why this is wrong then I would like to receive enlightenment also.

I hope this has helped you.

[quasimodo]

Sounds like your teacher is an idiot...

[kuba_s]

I'd like to thank everyone for their help and useful suggestions.

javacisnotrecognized:
This is pretty much how I understand the concept of tension, although understanding it doesn't necesserilly mean I know how to overcome it
Anyway, you made a good point - I started to note that whenever I attempt to play forte, I keep pressing the key down until the finger is raised again. I am now making concious effort to stop this, and I think it's already getting better.

go12_3:
I like the way you explained how to use gravity to produce loud sounds, but how do you apply this technique to eg. fast scales? So far as I'm concerned, there isn't enough time to raise the hand, thus gravity is of no use. Or am I just not getting this right? By the way, I reallly like the "shake your hands" tip - it helps a lot.

8426:
What you wrote makes sense and I keep trying this, although it's easier said than done - I'll keep trying though, hopefully it won't take me too long.

qusimodo:
I wouldn't say my teacher's an idiot, I mean, he's a really nice guy, but I just have this feeling that he's not a very good teacher. Like, some time ago, he discouraged me from memorizing pieces and told me that I really should focus on sight reading, because memory can always let me down (and since it can, it sooner or later will). And once the memory lets me down, I am not going to be able to do anything (as opposed to having the score in front of me). He concluded that the only benefit from memorizing is that I excercise my memory. I like memorizing, because I can rehearse a piece in my head even before I can play it.

Anyway, to sum this up - I think all of you suggest that I should first develop technique, and then play loud, instead of playing loud and trying to somehow miraculously beat the tension. I guess I just have to keep working, that's all.

Once again, thank you for your useful tips.

[8426]

I forgot something very important.

Be VERY careful not to let your hand collapse in an attempt at better relaxation.

I very heartily recommend that you read as many "methods" of piano as possible. C.C. Chang, Alan Fraser, Heinrich Neuhaus etc. It will mature you, and you will be able understand many things better, concepts of weight, ect. That is why I am not too specific when I tell you what I told you above.

[lostinidlewonder]

To my surprise, the teacher said I hadn't made any mistakes, and that the only problem he can see is that I am not playing loud enough.

Not loud enough for what exactly? Which piece and which bars? Volume is controlled by the body not only the fingers.

I avoid all kinds of strength excercises, and I already feel that my fingers are getting more delicate and can move faster). But my teacher's point of view is very different. He basically forces me to play louder, beyond the point where I can keep
my hands relaxed.

Try to play on a piano with a heavier action, this might train your hands to play louder. I believe you must have some tension in your hands to develop the hands to play louder, but this tension will eventualy evolve to an effortless touch, the exact method is very difficult to say in words and I can't do that sorry. From ineffiency you will pick away and it until you have effiency, so try to play loud, since your technique is not at a high enough level to allow it to feel effortless you will have to deal with the tension and experiment away removing little bit of ineffiency and tension bit by bit until you get rid of it all.

I began piano on a Bechstein with a very heavy action, then when I had my first lessons on a Yamaha wiht such soft action, the teachers said, wow you play very strong and loud!

.....even the best pianists tense sometimes, and that I need to learn to deal with it (which to me sounds like "you need to learn to play with the tension, just in case you tense during a performance")

If you remove the word BEST then this comment makes sense, but the best are NEVER EVER tense while playing.

So, is he right? Should I really go beyond the point where I can play relaxed? I mean, I'd really like to play louder (my forte sounds like his piano), but I just don't feel comfortable when I try to.

Push your boundaries but understand how to control it so it feels comfortable, this may take time, a good teacher will be able to allow you to see how you will remove tension bit by bit instead of saying, Dont worry eventually it will get better.