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Topic: Recommend Me a Piano  (Read 5049 times)

Offline Steinway

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Recommend Me a Piano
on: June 13, 2004, 04:52:13 PM
Can anyone recommend me a piano? I'm a newbie, help me out.  :(

Offline Antnee

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #1 on: June 13, 2004, 06:03:58 PM
Holy crap, we need info....

What are you looking to spend, What kind of quality instrument are you interested in, how much will you practice on it?

-Tony-
"The trouble with music appreciation in general is that people are taught to have too much respect for music they should be taught to love it instead." -  Stravinsky

Offline Saturn

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #2 on: June 13, 2004, 06:16:58 PM
Be more specific as to what you want.  What's your price range?  Do you want an upright or grand (or digital)?  Are you looking for a instrument for serious study or just casual playing?  Do you play mostly jazz or classical?  Liszt or Bach?  All this stuff will make a difference in the kind of piano you prefer.

Since you're a newbie, here are some well-known piano brands (in no particular order) which you might try investigating:
Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & Sons, Boston, Baldwin, Mason & Hamlin, Petrof, Bechstein, Bosendorfer, Pleyel, Schimmel

- Saturn

Offline Steinway

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #3 on: June 13, 2004, 06:24:31 PM
Opps..sorry for not being specific enough~

I'm very interested in piano.So i'm gonna put heart into learning it..I would set aside most of my time practicing it. hm..I would want an upright. A grand doesn't suit a newbie. lol. My budget not over 6000 USD. I would like something that produces a nice sound. I wanna play classical and some pop.

:)

Offline donjuan

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #4 on: June 13, 2004, 06:36:45 PM
6000USD for an upright?!!
go ahead and buy a grand!!  You can buy a decent grand for that kind of money.  I had an upright,- a good one too- a Yamaha.  I was ultimately dissatisfied with the touch.  I couldnt play repeated notes very well in the Liszt works I attempted.  My parents bought me a Yamaha 5'8'' Grand, and I found the music so, SO much easier to perform.  I wouldnt want to spend 6000USD on an upright.  Maybe 2000-3000...
donjuan

Offline Steinway

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #5 on: June 13, 2004, 07:08:09 PM
A newbie plays on grand?  :-/
I mean 6000USD is the largest amount i could spend on an upright. Pianos in my country aren't cheap. Last week i saw a YAMAHA grand piano, it costs 35,000SGD(20,000USD)

Offline donjuan

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #6 on: June 13, 2004, 07:26:17 PM
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A newbie plays on grand?  :-/
I mean 6000USD is the largest amount i could spend on an upright. Pianos in my country aren't cheap. Last week i saw a YAMAHA grand piano, it costs 35,000SGD(20,000USD)

What country do you live in?  20 000 USD is a normal price for a larger grand piano- maybe a C7- 7'3''
I live in Canada, and I bought my Yamaha C2 5'8" for 20 000 Canadian.
But, you can find decent korean made pianos like Samick for much less.  I was pretty close to buying a wurlitzer 5'3'' grand..it costs about 9000 Canadian, which would translate to 5000 to 6000 American.  It was a decent piano- surely not the best, but decent to practice on.  Let's just say, I could play my Liszt easily on that piano compared to a fine quality upright.
donjuan  

Offline Steinway

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #7 on: June 13, 2004, 07:41:50 PM
Hm...
I was planning to put my piano in my room. So i can practice in the night as well. So i didn't consider about buying a grand, mainly because of space and my level.
But after reading what you have said, a grand piano seems to be very interesting. :) By the way, I live in Singapore. Piano selections are very limited over here.  :'(

Offline jr11

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #8 on: June 13, 2004, 07:52:59 PM
I'll play the devil's advocate here. You are free to spend as much as you like, but if you are just beginning, I would proceed a little more cautiously.  Classical piano is not for everyone, and if your goal is to play sonatas well, you are looking at 10 years of study, with required practice time of three hours a day at the upper levels. If you are an adult working full time and have any sort of life or family, I would consider this a very difficult goal to acheive. I am trying to balance family, home chores and practice, which is tough, and I don't even have a job!

Consider the disadvantages of a grand piano. They will take up a good portion of a room. They are heavy, awkward, and can be expensive to move to tight places. They are loud, and though polished piano pieces are nice to hear, 3 hrs a day of scales and stumbling practice is trying for neighbours and family. Oddly enough, the sound produced by a grand over an upright is mostly appreciated by the audience, because the flat angle of the strings fills the whole room. The upright, with it's soundboard facing the player, mirrors the sound right back, so the player's perception of the sound can be louder and clearer. The grand does have technical advantages for the player, but these may not be realized until more advanced levels.

If space, portability, or neighbours are of concern, consider a digital. I use one more than my grand for my gr.10 RCM studies, just because I can use it with headphones. It's also nice to have some different sounds for variety, and some capacity to record.

For the budget you have, you could get a top-notch upright. If you wish to part with that amount of money, that would be my recommendation to you. But your best place to start is your piano dealer, where you can see, play, and ask questions.

Best of fortune to you in your endeavours.

Offline Steinway

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #9 on: June 13, 2004, 08:30:38 PM
Quote
I'll play the devil's advocate here. You are free to spend as much as you like, but if you are just beginning, I would proceed a little more cautiously.  Classical piano is not for everyone, and if your goal is to play sonatas well, you are looking at 10 years of study, with required practice time of three hours a day at the upper levels. If you are an adult working full time and have any sort of life or family, I would consider this a very difficult goal to acheive. I am trying to balance family, home chores and practice, which is tough, and I don't even have a job!

Consider the disadvantages of a grand piano. They will take up a good portion of a room. They are heavy, awkward, and can be expensive to move to tight places. They are loud, and though polished piano pieces are nice to hear, 3 hrs a day of scales and stumbling practice is trying for neighbours and family. Oddly enough, the sound produced by a grand over an upright is mostly appreciated by the audience, because the flat angle of the strings fills the whole room. The upright, with it's soundboard facing the player, mirrors the sound right back, so the player's perception of the sound can be louder and clearer. The grand does have technical advantages for the player, but these may not be realized until more advanced levels.

If space, portability, or neighbours are of concern, consider a digital. I use one more than my grand for my gr.10 RCM studies, just because I can use it with headphones. It's also nice to have some different sounds for variety, and some capacity to record.

For the budget you have, you could get a top-notch upright. If you wish to part with that amount of money, that would be my recommendation to you. But your best place to start is your piano dealer, where you can see, play, and ask questions.

Best of fortune to you in your endeavours.


I will stick to Upright piano. :) By the way, what's the main difference between a Digital Piano and an upright piano or grand piano ? Another question, i see "Professional Model" on some piano, what's the difference between a Professional Model and a Non-Professional model ? The sound or what ?  ???

Offline donjuan

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #10 on: June 13, 2004, 08:50:37 PM
from your previous posts, Steinway, I can tell you are very motivated to work hard for a long time.  I have a digital as well as a grand- a Roland FP3.  It's a lot of fun, but the technique is even worse on such a piano.  If you plan to play for people, or wish to have acceptable technique, a digital alone will not do.  

Unless you live in a HUGE house, putting an acoustic piano of any sort in your room will be too loud for you to practice on at night.  If money and room is a factor, why dont you spend the 6000$ on a medium quality upright for your living room, or music studio..and the remainder of the money on a high quality digital for your room.  This way, you will have a real piano to practice and improve on, and a digital piano in your room to play with headphones at night, for your own enjoyment.

Digitals do lack the ability to play technically well on, but you will enjoy the number of voices for the pop music you plan to play.
donjuan

Offline Antnee

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #11 on: June 13, 2004, 11:05:40 PM
Yeah... What I like to do is practice my pieces and technique on my grand, and then later in the evening go to my room and practice my sight reading and memorize my pieces on my digital...

-Tony-
"The trouble with music appreciation in general is that people are taught to have too much respect for music they should be taught to love it instead." -  Stravinsky

Offline Axtremus

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #12 on: June 14, 2004, 09:03:18 AM
OK, you are in Singapore, for 6000 USD or less, try shooting for a Yamaha U1 or U3, or a Kawai K-50 or K-60 -- those are decent upright pianos. Many students use them all the way through ABRSM Grade 8 or even diploma. The U-series have proven themselves for more than two decades. These are respectable pianos and THEY WORK.

Another brand that has gotten rather popular in your region lately, I believe, would be Petrof from the Czech Republic. While Petrof uprights' track record is not as well established as the Yamaha/U-series and Kawai/K-series, they seem to have gotten their act together in the last 8~10 years, or so I have heard. I am not as familiar with Petrof uprights myself but have heard good things about them lately.

Good luck!

(p.s. Some one mention something about getting a new Yamaha C7 grand piano for 20000 USD -- from what I have seen, I do not believe that to be realistic, I am not even sure if I can get a new C3 for that money here in the US, much less a new C7. I would peg a new C7 at more than 30000 USD -- how much more, I do not know.)

Offline Terry-Piano

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #13 on: June 14, 2004, 09:31:08 AM
I got an idea for you if ur new... i would suggest a ROLAND digital piano.... i bought one for 2500$ canadian... the HP-2  ... it sounds amazing , quite close to hearing a real piano ..an integrated metronome, recording possibilty and many good classical and well known songs recorded and u can just choose to hear 1 hand at a time if ur trying to learn by hear... it has many possibilties i can play strings and piano at same time.. organ, harpsichord etc... i really am truly grateful that i bought it as my first piano.. good for the student

Offline Steinway

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #14 on: June 14, 2004, 11:43:38 AM
Quote
Another brand that has gotten rather popular in your region lately, I believe, would be Petrof from the Czech Republic. While Petrof uprights' track record is not as well established as the Yamaha/U-series and Kawai/K-series, they seem to have gotten their act together in the last 8~10 years, or so I have heard. I am not as familiar with Petrof uprights myself but have heard good things about them lately.

Good luck!


I'm looking at Yamaha U series and Kawai K series. They are nice pianos i believe.  :)

Regarding Petrof Upright Pianos which model is it , that you heard good things about ?

Offline donjuan

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #15 on: June 14, 2004, 10:37:20 PM
I tried Petrof uprights before.  They are quite expensive, but I admit, it is nice to see an upright with Renner action.  However, to practice on, I think you would be better off with a Yamaha upright, because they are very common and they feel a certain way- you will be able to play other pianos after studying on a Yamaha.

Axtremus, Yes, you can get a new C7 for 20000 american.  The dealers are very corrupt on average and boost up the price (Esp. if they have a monopoly in a city).  The Yamaha dealer in my city listed a new C2 for 30000Canadian.  I thought it was ridiculous, and called the next city over, and told them the price.  They laughed and told me they are allowed to sell it for 18000 Canadian.  The people actually called Japan to ask permission, would you believe that?  Today, the piano sits in my living room.
donjuan  

Offline Axtremus

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #16 on: June 15, 2004, 04:34:36 AM
Quote

Regarding Petrof Upright Pianos which model is it , that you heard good things about ?
Mostly the Petrof P-131. But, like I previously qualified, eventhough I have heard people say good things about them (mostly about how much they like its sound), I do not have enough experience playing Petrof uprights to pass judgement myself.

Quote
Axtremus, Yes, you can get a new C7 for 20000 american.  ...  They laughed and told me they are allowed to sell [a C2] for 18000 Canadian.  ...  


Wow! Assuming today's exchange rate (1 USD = 1.375 CAD), your 18000 CAD translates to 13090 USD -- very good price for a new C2! If I may ask, when did you buy it? (Just trying to see how current your pricing information is. Thanks.)

In my geographic area, New England in the US, there are two Yamaha dealerships roughly 100 km apart from each other. Despite having two dealerships, I seriously doubt I could get either to sell me a C3 much below 20000 USD! Donjuan, it seems you really know how to buy pianos at fantasticly low prices -- I already have a grand piano that I am happy with right now, but I will be sure to ask you where to buy a big Yamaha should I need to buy another grand piano. I can be very happy with a C7, and 20000 USD for a new C7 just seem unreal to me -- too good to be true! ;)

Offline xenon

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #17 on: June 15, 2004, 11:23:34 PM
Wow.  I was looking into a Yamaha C7 or a Kawai RX7 (both 7'6"), and the Yamaha was $42 000 CAD and the Kawai was $60 000, but the salesman cut me a deal to match the Yamaha.  Wow...so many things to buy, so little money :'(
You can't spell "Bach" without "ach"
-Xenon

Offline donjuan

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #18 on: June 16, 2004, 03:49:36 AM
Quote


Wow! Assuming today's exchange rate (1 USD = 1.375 CAD), your 18000 CAD translates to 13090 USD -- very good price for a new C2! If I may ask, when did you buy it? (Just trying to see how current your pricing information is. Thanks.)

In my geographic area, New England in the US, there are two Yamaha dealerships roughly 100 km apart from each other. Despite having two dealerships, I seriously doubt I could get either to sell me a C3 much below 20000 USD! Donjuan, it seems you really know how to buy pianos at fantasticly low prices -- I already have a grand piano that I am happy with right now, but I will be sure to ask you where to buy a big Yamaha should I need to buy another grand piano. I can be very happy with a C7, and 20000 USD for a new C7 just seem unreal to me -- too good to be true! ;)

I bought the C2 in the winter of 2002.  I read through an earlier version of this book from my library:

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000APYMJ/qid=1087345834/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/104-5824420-8061568?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

In one part of the book, Larry Fine gives many tips on how to talk to those smooth talking salespeople who have a talent of pressuring you to buy stuff in a short amount of time.  He also shows you how to get the absolute best price for a new instrument.  I used his advice of going to the next town over and checking their prices.  I also used his advice of walking out on a salesperson, making them feel desperate- like you arent coming back to buy stuff from them.  It's a great book and it saved me SO SO much money.

If you want to buy good pianos for less, you need to decide on the best times of the year to buy.  Finding a new C7 for 20000 American is very difficult.  You will need to rub shoulders with the right people, learn about how they operate and see if they will ever encounter a situation when they almost have to sell you a good deal.  I avoid buying pianos from private owners, because I ask myself why they are selling it.  Yeah, they may be selling because they lost interest, but they may also be selling to get a hunk of crap off their hands. My piano teacher bought a C7 for 20000 CANADIAN.  It was only a few years old, but the original owner smoked like a chimney, and so did the piano- for a good year or two.  

If you want a good deal really easily, you need to find a moral piano dealership, which is well, rare. hehe..

Here is what I suggest you do:

Go to the closest Yamaha dealership, ask for their LOWEST FINAL PRICE on a new C7, and walk out of there before the salespeople start mauling you.

Call up the other 100km away Yamaha dealership and tell them the price.  Ask for their lowest price.  (And notice any special privileges they throw in to encourage you to buy from them)  Dont hang up the phone until you work out a deal better than the previous one.

Go back to your close Yamaha dealer, and subtly mention that the next dealership over has the best deal, and you are tempted to go with them.  

Back and forth...backand forth...If you are lucky, to win your bussiness, one of the dealerships would have to call up the headquarters and get a special price.  (This is what happened to me)

Overall, I suggest you get a hold of any edition of Fines book.  It is full of advice for shopping and overcoming those smooth talking suits in the piano store.

I wish you nothing but the best! ;)
donjuan  

Offline Steinway

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #19 on: June 16, 2004, 06:48:15 AM
Sounds like a great book ! Thanks for the tip Donjuan.
YAMAHA U1 costs 9200SGD (5370USD)(7346CAD). I wanna ask if this price is reasonable ?

Offline donjuan

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #20 on: June 16, 2004, 07:04:05 AM
Quote
Sounds like a great book ! Thanks for the tip Donjuan.
YAMAHA U1 costs 9200SGD (5370USD)(7346CAD). I wanna ask if this price is reasonable ?

What do you mean when you say it costs 5370 Us dollars? Who told you that? the salesperson?, a website?  Piano prices can always be talked down.  THe only thing that stops you from paying for what you get is the commisions of the salespeople.  Do they want to make a living or a Killing?  make sure they want to make a living..
donjuan

Offline Steinway

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #21 on: June 16, 2004, 07:06:12 AM
I saw it in a shop. The price tag indicates $9200 SGD.

Offline donjuan

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #22 on: June 16, 2004, 07:14:02 AM
Yeah, depending on how corrupt the dealership is (and most are), you can count on taking 20% of the price tag off immediately- if you talk to the people who work there, make sure you talk with the manager.  He/she will be the one who can give you the best price.  The price tag means nothing in a piano store.  They only put it up so the people who ask about buying is expecting to pay the asked price- another trick used by piano dealers and used car salespeople.
dog eat dog, my friend..
donjuan

Offline Axtremus

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #23 on: June 16, 2004, 11:14:49 PM
Donjuan, thanks for sharing your tips/info.

As for whether 9200 SGD (5370 USD) is a "good price" for a Yamaha U1, I've seen prices (actually paid by retail customers) any where from 5400 USD to 6100 USD in the last eight months or so over here in the US. I assume you guys in Singapore might be able to get a slightly cheaper price because shipping a U1 from Japan to Singapore should cost less than shipping the same from Japan to the East Coast of the USA. It seems the 9200 SGD price is already at the lower end of the price spectrum we see here in the US.

Good luck.

Spatula

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #24 on: June 17, 2004, 05:24:55 AM
Would any of you ever recommend getting it from "Irene Besse" dealership of pianos?  :-/

Offline donjuan

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #25 on: June 17, 2004, 05:58:06 AM
When I was in Calgary, I went to Irene Besse.  The salespeople got all haughty when my dad made the mistake of saying Steinway's action is similar to Yamaha action.  I know this is a stupid thing to say, but still, those sales people were so damn rude..

Are you thinking about buying a Steinway, Spatula?
donjuan

Offline Ed Thomas

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #26 on: June 23, 2004, 07:37:49 PM
I don't know how things are on pricing now, but at a time when I had access to the real numbers, the markup on pianos in a reputable store for list price was just over 100%.  So a $20,000 piano costs the store under $10,000.  Of course they have to makes some money, pay the salesman commission, etc., etc., but the higher the price is, the more bargaining room.  If the piano is listed at $6,000 then there is only $3000 of leeway.  It probably isn't quite this simple, but it isn't far off.  

When I bought my G-2 Yamaha about 25 years ago (predecessor to the C-2), I looked like a dumb sailor with no money just going in the store to drool and get sea-weed all over the keys.  There were NO other customers in the store, but not a single salesman came over to give me the time of day.  After awhile the OWNER came and asked me if he could help and I told him what I could afford and what I wanted.  He showed me the G-2 that had just come in and offered it to me for $3700.  I paid cash for it.  My cousin worked as a tuner for that store later and said that was not much above the store cost at the time and he couldn't figure out how I got it so cheap.  My feeling was that the owner moved a piano that was just out of the box, didn't have to pay any salesman commission, and got cash.  In other words, he probably got about $500 hassle free for just coming over and saying "hi".  I've often wondered what he told the salesmen later.

Now to answer your original question, I cannot practice where other people can hear me.  It is too distracting.  So I have a Roland FP-1 (digital weighted) that is adquate for practice.  I think that is the best way to go in tight living spaces for all hours of the day practice -- get a good digital.  I would even recommend that you get it first and then you can take your time shopping for your perfect first REAL piano.  We can't tell you what YOU want.  We can only tell you what WE like.  So go play a zillion pianos and when you find your dream instrument, sell your soul to get it.  Meanwhile, you can practice in your room at 3:00 AM on the digital with earphones.  

Sometimes if you wait, and tell everyone you know that you want a something, a good deal shows up all on its own.  At these kind of prices, you shouldn't hurry.

Finally, I disagree about buying a used piano.  Just take a tech with you to look it over as you should take a mechanic to look at a used car.  People sell pianos for all sorts of valid reasons:  death, loss of interest, need money, upgrading to better...  It's almost certainly a safer buy than a car and people do that all the time.

Offline beethoven

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #27 on: June 24, 2004, 10:25:01 PM
Quote
Opps..sorry for not being specific enough~

I'm very interested in piano.So i'm gonna put heart into learning it..I would set aside most of my time practicing it. hm..I would want an upright. A grand doesn't suit a newbie. lol. My budget not over 6000 USD. I would like something that produces a nice sound. I wanna play classical and some pop.

:)


I think Kawai and Yamaha make excellent upright pianos in that range. You may be able to find an old Steinway upright for that amount but it will likely not be in the best of condition. You can purchase a brand new Kawai or Yamaha for $6,000. These pianos sound excellent in my opinion and are well-crafted and long-lasting. They also retain value over the years, so if you decide to upgrade to a better piano later, it will not be hard to find a buyer for your Kawai or Yamaha.

Offline donjuan

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #28 on: June 25, 2004, 01:10:20 AM
But, it will be easier to find a buyer for a Yamaha than a Kawai.  Kawai uprights show up quite a bit in the classified section of the newspaper..hmmmmm.

(And I would never pay 6000 USD for a Yamaha or Kawai upright, its a bloody ripoff!!)
donjuan

Offline c1ciprian

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #29 on: September 17, 2004, 01:31:02 PM
I sell a Steinway & Sons New York upright piano, 52"  Upright Grand, excellent condition, #76,733(1893) Ebonized, 3 pedals, sostenuto pedal(center), $2500, transport included.  

Offline classicarts

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Re: Recommend Me a Piano
Reply #30 on: October 20, 2005, 09:43:20 AM
This is really a broad question, so am going to answer with a general answer.  Depending on a upright or a grand piano, for an upright, ::) I suggest Yamaha's or Kawai's.  For a grand piano, its a different ball game.  That really depends on your aural taste and what you want to expect from a grand piano.   :D Good luck.
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