Chopin/Godowsky Etude Op. 10 No. 1

[goansongo]

I'm currently working on this piece right now.  I just wanted to know who else has played it and what were their experiences with this piece?

[goansongo]

hmm.. doesn't look like anyone has replied yet.  Well, has anyone tried any of the Chopin/Godowsky Etudes in general?  

[robert_henry]

I have played a few including the one you mentioned.  What do you want to know?

[goansongo]

I just wanted to know if you had any tips to give me and things I should avoid ... maybe any mistakes you made that I might make.
Haha.. Robert Henry.  I visited your site and listened to your recording.  It sounded so beautiful, that's why I decided to practice this piece.  Thank you for posting up the Chopin/Godowsky Etudes. I'm a big fan of these Etudes.

[littlechopin]

congratulations to R.Henry, I heard his music.

About this etude, does anybody know if is it more difficult than Chopin's original op10 n°1?

I've only "heard" Godowsky's etude, because I've not yet found the score.
Thanks

[newsgroupeuan]

congratulations to R.Henry, I heard his music.

About this etude, does anybody know if is it more difficult than Chopin's original op10 n°1?

I've only "heard" Godowsky's etude, because I've not yet found the score.
Thanks

I have seen the score,  and it is about a few times harder - both hands do the broken chord thing....never tried it though

[robert_henry]

It's difficult, yes, but fell into my hands quickly.  I learned it a few years ago from scratch and two weeks later I played it for my jury.  I had it up to speed within a couple of days.  So, it is difficult for me to give tips on it as I didn't have much problem with it.  I'm glad you enjoyed the recording.  It is a few years old, and I'm much better at it now.  I'm just too busy to upload a newer version.

Many years ago, however, it took a while to perfect the original.  So, I would say that if you can play the original easily then you cqan pick this up just fine.  If you are still struggling with the original though, I would wait.

The most important two or three ideas for the Godowsky version would be to:

1.  Make sure the pulse is clear.  People are used to the original etude which is in 4/4; the Godowsky is in 3/4, so make the downbeats in the middle of the runs clear.

2.  I chose to play the more difficult octave ossias (unlike most recordings  ).  You should work to be totally free with your body by the time you get to them. (They are a few pages into the piece.)  These were difficult to work into the piece.  My technique for each octave run is that I begin playing them with the wrist and gradually stiffen it so that by the end of the run I am playing with the arm, or really the elbow joint.  So, the first run begins on B.  For the first few I play wrist octaves.  At about F and E my wrist starts to stiffen (intentionally) and I am playing elbow octaves for the final D, C, B.  You want speed, then power and speed, and this sequence gives me that.

3.  Don't blow your wad.  I say this all the time: the F markings in a piece of music do not require that EVERY note be forte, only that the AVERAGE volume of the passage be forte.  In reality, for most of the piece I am playing PP, with strong chords and bass octaves and a tremendous mini-crescendo at the top of the arpeggio.  This idea is very similar to another thread in which I said that many times the effect of what is heard is quite different than what one actually does at the keyboard.  It only appears that I am playing forte, for example.  Even in the loudest passsages, my arpeggios always begin pp.

4.  The place to relax (besides always being in a state of relaxation) is after each chord and on the way to each run.  How you begin each run is very important - if you begin it tighly, then you will be tight the whole way.  The way I feel at this moment: like Frankenstein with his arms out in front of him with his wrists totally limp.  Or, pretend you are giving a giant redwood tree a hug, but your wrists are limp.  Begin each run like this.  Last thing: as I begin the run, I pull my arms out, not in.  For instance, the first two notes of the first are C and E.  They are played with an 'out' motion - arms floating at first then gently pulling and dropping into the run.

Let me know how it goes.

Robert Henry

[goansongo]

The thing I'm working on right now is getting the song up to speed.  It's a bit difficult to coordinate my right hand and my left hand to do the runs.  Generally, my right hand runs faster than my left hand.  I wouldn't have any problem playing the Chopin version Op. 10 No. 1, but for this version, it requires your left hand to run up and down the piano too.  
I've read up about the wrist method, but I still don't quite understand what you mean.  I've check on past threads too, but like I said, I don't really know what you mean.  Could you explain to me what the "wrist" method is?

[littlechopin]

I've found the score, then I can say it is more difficult than the original, like you already said.

Thanks, Robert, for the advices. I found Chopin's etude rather easy to play, then I'll prove it.

I listen every day to your "Brahms intermezzo op.118 n°2", real emotional. Thanks

I'll wait for your lazy upload  

[goansongo]

The song is coming along quite well.  Yes, I think Robert Henry should upload some more of his songs.  They are quite nice.  I especially love Godowsky pieces.

[Nu-Steinway-Player]

Just my personal comments -- last year I learned the Chopin etudes -- after I finally acquired my first Steinway.  During the process, my professor requested that I bring in the godowsky studies.  I had not seen them.  I picked them up at the store and looked at them, and also a recording.  I find them absolutely absurd, and see very little musical value in any of them -- and I love big showy pieces.  But what he does is -- well, as I just stated, absurd.  My professor and I got a good laugh by listening to some recordings of them -- and then we continued to work on the REAL THING!

[abe]

From the few godowsky etudes that i've heard, I think they're really cool. True, they might not offer any additional musical value than did the originals, but its still fun to listen to them. To bad the recording by Hamelin is SO expensive. Otherwise I might get it.

[quixoticcafe]

The famous pianist Wilhelm Bachaus (born 1884) had this to say:

"...it is hard for one to imagine anything more complicated or more difficult than the Godowsky arrangements of the Chopin studies. I fail to see how pianoforte technic can go much beyond these, unless one gets more fingers or hands. Godowsky's treatment of these studies is marvelous not only from a technical standpoint, but from a musical standpoint as well. He has added a new flavor to the individual masterpieces of Chopin. he has made them wonderfully clever and really very interesting studies in harmony and counterpoint, so that one forgets their technical intricacies in the beauty of the compositions. One cannot say that their original beauty has been enhanced, but he has made them wonderfully fascinating compositions despite their aggravating complications for the student"

(from Great Pianists on Piano Playing by James Francis Cooke, p.55)

with that said I am off to make and arrangement of the Don Juan Fantasy and the Hammerklavier... lol

P.S. Robert Henry... I listened to your Opus 10 #1.... brilliant! BRAVO!

[SteinwayTony]

My professor and I got a good laugh by listening to some recordings of them -- and then we continued to work on the REAL THING!

...I'm not laughing.

These are monumental works for those who are already comfortable with Chopin Etudes (arguably one of the most difficult sets of piano Etudes ever written), appreciate their musical value, and want to take them to the next technical level.

[abe]

Do you guys have recommendations for great recordings of these etudes that I might buy? Preferably the complete set of all 53(?). I know of Hamelin's recording, and I looked at another by Carlo Grante. Any other good recordings out there?

Thanks alot!

[Nu-Steinway-Player]

I still think they're ridiculous, even though I respect Mr. Bachaus's opinion.  I would never learn them -- to each his own.  They are clever --  --