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Topic: the music of K.S. Sorabji  (Read 17697 times)

Offline ahinton

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #100 on: July 15, 2009, 08:10:28 PM
Yeah, I almost forgot about him. I am a great fan of his work and have most of his CDs. I will buy his next volume of the TE's when they come out.
I understand that September 2009 is now the scheduled release date for these; I'm sure that you will not be disappointed!

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
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The Sorabji Archive

Offline weissenberg2

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #101 on: July 15, 2009, 11:39:33 PM
It's not at all off topic, I do know and, sadly, there are no plans for this at present, although this score is one whose edition is not yet complete.

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Alistair

Do you know who is publishing it?
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Offline nearenough

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #102 on: July 16, 2009, 02:21:26 AM
Retro: ...but part of the problem is that there is really only one label releasing Sorabji's music (Altarus) and there is really only one pianist who is recording his music (Jonathan Powell)....

N: I rest my case.

Offline retrouvailles

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #103 on: July 16, 2009, 06:00:38 AM
Retro: ...but part of the problem is that there is really only one label releasing Sorabji's music (Altarus) and there is really only one pianist who is recording his music (Jonathan Powell)....

N: I rest my case.

Well, you can go on thinking what you want, but just because you have an opinion on something, and have so many years behind you age-wise, doesn't make your opinion factual. There have been many composers who have languished in obscurity unjustly for years. Hell, no one really gave a crap about Bach until composers like Mendelssohn revived him from obscurity. He wasn't an awful composer because he remained in obscurity for a long time. I'm not saying that Sorabji is in the same situation, but it might be a similar case. I'm just thinking you haven't done "nearenough" research to be able to make such claims.

Also, there is something called the "quote" button. Use it.

Offline ahinton

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #104 on: July 16, 2009, 08:25:46 AM
Do you know who is publishing it?
When it is ready, we will issue it ourselves; I cannot yet tell you when this will be. however, one particular editor has a massive project to bring out editions of all six piano symphonies, the symphonic nocturne, the early unnumbered symphony and the symphonic variations, on each of which he is working concurrently; this editor has now also taken on the reponsibility for creating a new corrected typeset edition of OC, so he will have his work cut out for the foreseeable future! All that I can tell you at this stage is that the first of these works to appear will either be the fifth piano symphony or OC and that, of the others, rather more work has already been done on the second and fourth piano symphonies than the remainder to date.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline ahinton

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #105 on: July 16, 2009, 08:41:04 AM
Retro: ...but part of the problem is that there is really only one label releasing Sorabji's music (Altarus) and there is really only one pianist who is recording his music (Jonathan Powell)....

N: I rest my case.
You have no case to rest. Whilst I would agree (and have indeed agreed already) that it would be a good thing were more labels and artists to take up this repertoire - and whilst it is obvious that Altarus has long had the lion's share of these recordings, a brief check of The Sorabji Archive website (had you done this) would have revealed to you that Sorabji's works have been released on the Musical Heritage Society (USA), Musicmasters (USA), Continuum (formerly UK, now NZ), RCS/Keytone(NL), ASV(UK), Élan(USA), Hyperion(UK), BIS(SE), Centaur(USA), BMS(UK), Dunelm(UK) and Danacord(DK) labels as well as Altarus and that many of these (including all on the Altarus label) are still available up to two decades after their original releases. Again, whilst Jonathan Powell has recorded (and performed) more Sorabji than anyone else, some of the other artists who have performed and/or recorded his works are on the list on the same website at
https://www.sorabji-archive.co.uk/performers/performers.php
- this list comprises about 125 entries for individuals and ensembles.

Please do a little research first before making sweeping statements to suit your apparent agenda tha others then have to correct. Thank you.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline ahinton

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #106 on: July 16, 2009, 08:49:10 AM
Well, you can go on thinking what you want, but just because you have an opinion on something, and have so many years behind you age-wise, doesn't make your opinion factual. There have been many composers who have languished in obscurity unjustly for years. Hell, no one really gave a crap about Bach until composers like Mendelssohn revived him from obscurity. He wasn't an awful composer because he remained in obscurity for a long time. I'm not saying that Sorabji is in the same situation, but it might be a similar case. I'm just thinking you haven't done "nearenough" research to be able to make such claims.
This is very true and I had already cited the cases of Alkan, Godowsky and Medtner; there are many others, especially from the pre-classical era when composers were not expected to bequeath long-term legacies as there was not much of a climate of performing the music of past generations (Bach, as you rightly observe, being one such). In addition, there are nowadays many tens of thousands of living composers vying for attention as well as thens if not hundreds of thousands more from earlier times who are represented in performance and/or on recordings and I daresay that neither "nearenough" nor you nor I nor anyone else will have even heard of a large number of them; that fact also does not of itself imply an value judgement upon anyone's music.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline pies

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #107 on: July 16, 2009, 07:26:54 PM
a

Offline ahinton

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #108 on: July 17, 2009, 10:16:52 AM
hinton, which Sorabji pieces do you think are the most pianistic?
The ones that he wrote for the piano. Now ask the question that you presumably meant to ask...

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline jpowell

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #109 on: July 17, 2009, 11:08:02 AM
I think I know what "pies" means, although there is for me a difference in effect and production. For example, I think the solo concerto is a very effective piece pianistically, in that the material (even the imaginary orchestral tutti) is certainly conceived in a pianistic sense, and indeed much of the piece is written in a way that the piano would be the best instrument to articulate the material. That said, it is a bugger to play, in a way that Djami, Gulistan, the 4th Sonata and even most of the Sequentia cyclica aren't.

Offline communist

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #110 on: July 17, 2009, 11:57:53 AM
I think I know what "pies" means, although there is for me a difference in effect and production. For example, I think the solo concerto is a very effective piece pianistically, in that the material (even the imaginary orchestral tutti) is certainly conceived in a pianistic sense, and indeed much of the piece is written in a way that the piano would be the best instrument to articulate the material. That said, it is a bugger to play, in a way that Djami, Gulistan, the 4th Sonata and even most of the Sequentia cyclica aren't.

You may have seen the thread, but how hard is the Sorabji's nocturne Djami?
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Offline ahinton

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #111 on: July 17, 2009, 01:00:47 PM
You may have seen the thread, but how hard is the Sorabji's nocturne Djami?
It is always impossible to answer these questions meaningfully and helpfully, since unless one can know in advance at least something of the pianistic abilities of the questioner, any answer is likely to mislead. Few of Sorabji's works are easy to play; Djami is by no means one of the most challenging of them, but the fact that it is not especially difficult by the composer's own standards does not mean that it is not difficult per se. The best that I can say without knowing anything about your own playing is that it is the kind of piece that would be well within the abilities of quite a few pianists were they only to set themselves the task of preparing it.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline gep

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #112 on: July 17, 2009, 01:43:09 PM
I think I know what "pies" means, although there is for me a difference in effect and production. For example, I think the solo concerto is a very effective piece pianistically, in that the material (even the imaginary orchestral tutti) is certainly conceived in a pianistic sense, and indeed much of the piece is written in a way that the piano would be the best instrument to articulate the material. That said, it is a bugger to play, in a way that Djami, Gulistan, the 4th Sonata and even most of the Sequentia cyclica aren't.
Having (and seen) the score of Sonata IV, your remark is quite indicative of the astoundingallity of your technique! Which, after hearing quite a few Sorabji CD's and one live concert is no longer a surprise but still rather baffling at each new encounter (as one page turner "(turning Concord) exclaimed: "he really plays ALL the notes!).

DO keep up the good work!

All best,
Gep
In the long run, any words about music are less important than the music. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not worth talking to (Shostakovich)

Offline ahinton

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #113 on: July 17, 2009, 04:50:50 PM
Having (and seen) the score of Sonata IV, your remark is quite indicative of the astoundingallity of your technique! Which, after hearing quite a few Sorabji CD's and one live concert is no longer a surprise but still rather baffling at each new encounter (as one page turner "(turning Concord) exclaimed: "he really plays ALL the notes!).

DO keep up the good work!

All best,
Gep
"Astoundingal(l)ity is the latest Dutch word to be added to my woefully meagre vocabulary in that language but it certainly fits the bill in the present context! I think that the risk that Mr Powell will do other than keep up the good work that he has already kept up for a good few years is even slimmer than the possiblity of my writing a second string quintet...

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
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The Sorabji Archive

Offline gep

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #114 on: July 17, 2009, 05:10:10 PM
Quote
the possiblity of my writing a second string quintet...
I, for one, would very much hope is not 0!

Gep
In the long run, any words about music are less important than the music. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not worth talking to (Shostakovich)

Offline ahinton

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #115 on: July 17, 2009, 08:11:25 PM
I, for one, would very much hope is not 0!
For the record - no second string quintet - ever! Phew!!...(and sorry - if ever I need to be...)...

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
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The Sorabji Archive

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #116 on: July 17, 2009, 08:16:11 PM
I think that the risk that Mr Powell will do other than keep up the good work that he has already kept up for a good few years is even slimmer than the possiblity of my writing a second string quintet...

Praise the Lord
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Offline ahinton

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #117 on: July 17, 2009, 08:33:32 PM
Praise the Lord
For what? - the mercifully promised absence of a second string quintet from me or the far more important fact that Mr Powell is almost certain to continue his good works? Good God - you begin to sound like pianistimo!...

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #118 on: July 17, 2009, 09:24:05 PM
Judging by an old photo of yourself, you once looked like her.

Thal
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Offline ahinton

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #119 on: July 17, 2009, 09:30:05 PM
Judging by an old photo of yourself, you once looked like her.
Judging (been reading the book of Judges, have you?) by which old photo of whom, who looked like who(m)? Lots of questions here presumably not to be answered but, in the meantime, we were referring to who it is that might sound like someone else rather than who might look like no one in particular...

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
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The Sorabji Archive

Offline nearenough

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #120 on: July 19, 2009, 04:15:50 AM
Retro: Well, you can go on thinking what you want, but just because you have an opinion on something, and have so many years behind you age-wise, doesn't make your opinion factual. There have been many composers who have languished in obscurity unjustly for years. Hell, no one really gave a crap about Bach until composers like Mendelssohn revived him from obscurity. He wasn't an awful composer because he remained in obscurity for a long time. I'm not saying that Sorabji is in the same situation, but it might be a similar case. I'm just thinking you haven't done "nearenough" research to be able to make such claims.

Alistair:
This is very true and I had already cited the cases of Alkan, Godowsky and Medtner; there are many others, especially from the pre-classical era when composers were not expected to bequeath long-term legacies as there was not much of a climate of performing the music of past generations (Bach, as you rightly observe, being one such). In addition, there are nowadays many tens of thousands of living composers vying for attention as well as thens if not hundreds of thousands more from earlier times who are represented in performance and/or on recordings and I daresay that neither "nearenough" nor you nor I nor anyone else will have even heard of a large number of them; that fact also does not of itself imply an value judgement upon anyone's music.

N: In reply:

Affirming the consequent, sometimes called converse error, is a formal fallacy.

   1.   If P, then Q.
   2.   Q.
   3.   Therefore, P.

1. Many great composers are initially obscure.
2. Sorabji is obscure.
3. Sorabji is a great composer.

This is fallacious reasoning and is a false lure and an unwarranted conclusion. Sure, Bach was initially obscure and was later "discovered" or even "rediscovered." But you cannot deny that many more alleged composers are deservedly obscure because their music just stinks. Therefore you cannot reason backward here and compare the merits (if any) of Sorabji simply because he is obscure now for the reason that some great composers were also obscure. Sorabji must be judged on his own account and not that of analagous situations of other composers.

The argument from analogy is also a logical fallacy.

Offline n00bhippy

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #121 on: July 19, 2009, 04:25:04 AM
How about this little factoid?

quoted from the original post,
"if you do not like (or even despise) his music (which is perfectly OK, assuming you have at least tried him) please do feel invited to leave no messages here, and secondly, please try to remain within the subject in order to protect readers from having to trawl through reams of messages to find the interesting bits."

I'm all for freedom of speech. But hey, why don't you just make your own thread about composers you dislike/think are overrated etc. etc. to talk about that sort of thing?

Offline retrouvailles

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #122 on: July 19, 2009, 05:36:33 AM
But you cannot deny that many more alleged composers are deservedly obscure because their music just stinks. Therefore you cannot reason backward here and compare the merits (if any) of Sorabji simply because he is obscure now for the reason that some great composers were also obscure. Sorabji must be judged on his own account and not that of analagous situations of other composers.

Yes, that initial statement is perfectly true. However, it is not your place to say that Sorabji is bad just because he is obscure. Only time will tell if he is a great composer waiting to be discovered, or if he deserves to languish in obscurity because his music isn't good. If someone revives interest in him successfully, and there is a big enough following, that will be great. However, it is too early to say if this is happening now or not. Either way, it is just plain outlandish to see your statements about how much he deserves to be in obscurity. I suggest you just stop now before you make yourself look more like a fool.

One more thing: use the quote button! It is difficult to read your posts if you don't use the quote button, but rather a crude method of quoting my and other posts, because it is difficult to see where my thoughts end and yours begin.

Offline ahinton

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #123 on: July 19, 2009, 06:25:01 AM
Affirming the consequent, sometimes called converse error, is a formal fallacy.

   1.   If P, then Q.
   2.   Q.
   3.   Therefore, P.

1. Many great composers are initially obscure.
2. Sorabji is obscure.
3. Sorabji is a great composer.

This is fallacious reasoning and is a false lure and an unwarranted conclusion.
But then no one is making any such conclusion here! Those who know and admire Sorabji's music do so having considered it on its own merits, not because it might once have been more "obscure" than it is now or because it is still more "obscure" than Stravinsky; the "obscure" obfuscation is from you!

Sure, Bach was initially obscure and was later "discovered" or even "rediscovered." But you cannot deny that many more alleged composers are deservedly obscure because their music just stinks. Therefore you cannot reason backward here and compare the merits (if any) of Sorabji simply because he is obscure now for the reason that some great composers were also obscure.
Some composers are "obscure" (i.e. not well known) because their music might not be particularly worth knowing, but then it could be argued that other composers whose music is not particularly worth knowing are far from "obscure", so that argument goes nowhere either.

Sorabji must be judged on his own account and not that of analagous situations of other composers.
Indeed - and I have myself stated, in fact - but this (as I have also stated) is precisely what his admirers do. If admiration for Sorabji's music depended upon his continuing to languish in some kind of "obscurity", then "logic" (which you seek to invoke) would presumably dictate that the better known his music becomes, the less it will be admired; this is utterly illogical and has no basis in fact, let alone any relevance to why people admire Sorabji's music.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline nearenough

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #124 on: July 20, 2009, 04:01:11 AM
In quick responses:

1. I clearly labelled who said what in my previous postings, so there should be no complaint about me not using the "quote button" whatever that is.

2. I did not raise the contention that since Bach was obscure and subsequently great, that Sorabji is in the same boat. I merely responded to what was asserted by Alistair and another.

Offline retrouvailles

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #125 on: July 20, 2009, 04:49:56 AM
In quick responses:

1. I clearly labelled who said what in my previous postings, so there should be no complaint about me not using the "quote button" whatever that is.

Just so you know:



The quote button is pointed out quite clearly. I'm just suggesting that you use it because 1. it makes it much clearer to read your posts and 2. everyone else uses it, so why shouldn't you?

2. I did not raise the contention that since Bach was obscure and subsequently great, that Sorabji is in the same boat. I merely responded to what was asserted by Alistair and another.

Sorabji is nowhere near as great as Bach, and he may remain in obscurity for a long time and might not get a revival he deserves, but he provides enjoyment and intellectual fascination for quite a few musicians, and that may be called a success in some people's eyes. He surely piques my interest, and I would (and have in the past) spend money to make sure efforts to revive him continue for years to come.

Offline pies

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #126 on: July 21, 2009, 03:48:07 AM
Who is Alexander Abercrombie, and why has he put so much time and effort into typesetting Sorabji's stuff?

Offline indutrial

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #127 on: July 21, 2009, 04:01:27 AM
Who is Alexander Abercrombie, and why has he put so much time and effort into typesetting Sorabji's stuff?

No idea, but I'm glad he does what he does. I bought a copy of the last major project he undertook (Sequentia Cyclia) and it's truly exceptional work. His work towards a better presentation of Sorabji's scores makes me wish that I knew more about how to get into that line of work with other composers whose work could use a legible re-publication (or as the cases often stand, a legible first publication).

Offline jpowell

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #128 on: July 21, 2009, 03:24:33 PM
... makes me wish that I knew more about how to get into that line of work with other composers whose work could use a legible re-publication (or as the cases often stand, a legible first publication).

A very good idea.

Simply get hold of some typesetting software (like Sibelius), and the manuscript materials. Then get editing! Also study some rules of typesetting and engraving, and look critically at the presentation of some of the well-known publishers. The better your end product, the more likely publishers are to take an interest in it. Also learn how to make concise editorial reports where necessary.

Then when you've got some materials (preferably with some performances resulting from them) you could approach some publishers. This has worked for me, in the cases of Vaino Raitio and Joseph Marx, for example.

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #129 on: July 21, 2009, 04:43:26 PM
It was my intention to typset some Woelfl, but is Sibelius the best tool for this??

Thal
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Concerto Preservation Society

Offline jpowell

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #130 on: July 21, 2009, 05:56:27 PM
It was my intention to typset some Woelfl, but is Sibelius the best tool for this??

Thal

I can't imagine why not. Are there any modern editions of his sonatas? How do they compare to Dussek, Hummel etc, by the way?

Offline indutrial

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #131 on: July 21, 2009, 06:51:40 PM
Then when you've got some materials (preferably with some performances resulting from them) you could approach some publishers. This has worked for me, in the cases of Vaino Raitio and Joseph Marx, for example.

That's interesting. Truthfully, I'm nowhere near having the proper means to make time for this. As well, I'm not quite sure how one would go about getting sufficient access to some of the composers I'm interested in. What has been your experience in dealing with libraries that hold the manuscripts in question? Many of them seem to outright forbid copying of any kind and express no interest in circulating the items.

I'm not really actively pursuing anything of this nature, but I'd like to down the road.

I'm also curious to know what is possible in terms of republishing works that are de facto out-of-print works (i.e. from defunct publishers, especially in Eastern Europe, former Soviet Union, etc., in some cases even America). I've encountered countless pieces from my period of interest (mostly 1900-1960) that are pretty much hanging from shoestrings in terms of availability and paper quality. What are the rules for preparing newer permanent (i.e. electronic) editions for these works. I can say for sure that if left in the responsibility of librarians and American music scholars, lots and lots of works are bound for disappearance.

A good example I encountered recently was Lithuanian composer Vytautas Bacevicius' book of preludes from Paragon publishing. Paragon is a totally defunct company and copies of that specific work are only available in something like 2-3 libraries in the world. I happened on one by complete chance and, without incurrng the librarian's wrath, managed to copy and scan the whole book. Before doing this, I'd checked with the Lithuanian MIC and, while they had the publication listed as something in existence, they were not able to offer it to music scholars (perhaps because they do not have it on hand?). A few months later, I found an even rarer publication from the same publisher of Bacevicius's Lithuanian Dances, and this volume was nearly completely destroyed (covers detached, pages falling out, paper yellow and brittle). I managed to copy this one as well and warned the librarian of the piece's decrepit condition (to which I'm sure he simply re-shelved it went on with his life). Anyhow, I couldn't help but wonder what the deal is with rare works that are endangered. I'm inclined to believe that the draconian copyright laws in this country make it impossible to openly re-publish the item. Beyond small publishers, I'd like to know what the policies are in regard to some of the bigger douchebag companies like Leduc, Huegel, and Wilhelm Hansen. What is to be done when they hold a copyright to a certain work yet render it unavailable to interested clients. When Subito Music acquired the rights to Seesaw Music, many of the titles in Seesaw's catalog became impossible to acquire simply because the people at Subito are retards and they are too lazy to reprint anything that's not immediate "at hand." The Seesaw situation sucks because most of those composers are still alive! In light of this, composer Allen Brings somehow reacquired many of his Seesaw scores and simply put them up for free download at https://amc.net/ , not unlike the way Leo Ornstein's catalogue (including older typeset works) is available on his site. I've rambled on this before, but I'm still really curious about what the proper procedure is for approaching a situation that is, for all intents and purposes, in need of facilitation.

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #132 on: July 21, 2009, 07:17:15 PM
I can't imagine why not. Are there any modern editions of his sonatas? How do they compare to Dussek, Hummel etc, by the way?

The only modern edition i have seen of Woelfl is the 7th piano concerto published by Harmonic Services Group.

From what i have played and listened to, I have formed the possibly incorrect impression that Dussek was more anticipating the romantics and Woelfl more rooted in the Mozart tradition. I guess this is not surprising as he studied with Leopold, Nanerl & Wolfgang.

I am gonna learn how to use Sibelius and see what i can do.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline jpowell

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #133 on: July 21, 2009, 09:01:02 PM
Basically, the stuff I've edited I've not had problems with so far.
- Marx: Austrian National Library gave some copies to Marx Gesellschaft, who passed them on to me for editing. The Austrian library music collection has really good staff, by the way. Now UE are going to publish the stuff (10 pieces I think) that I put together.
- Sorabji: I think you probably know I got the stuff from the Archive, and it now publishes it.
- Raitio: got the mss from enthusiasts in Finland mostly related to the Raitio-Seura (society); Modus Musiikki have published a book of about 14 pieces I edited.
- White: got it from him and his mate Dave Smith (who looks after the White archive a bit better that John used to). Edited about 50 sonatas, mainly so I could play and record them, now available in theory from bmic.
- I've done all sorts of other things, including 90% of Bentzon's Explosions for two pianos. I got the ms from one of his ex-students, so we can perform it (the ms sometimes only has 2 bars a page, so it is not very relaxing for the page turners). Also some unpublished Stanchinsky songs. The ms of these is in Alexandrov's hand. Got a copy from an old friend of his. Etc etc.

So I've avoided too much copyright issues.

Not really sure about the position re old Soviet stuff. Some of it is definitely worth putting out again. You'd have to ask someone with a bit of expertise in copyright law.


All best

Offline artsyalchemist

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #134 on: July 21, 2009, 10:21:37 PM
Has anyone read The Composer-Pianists: Hamelin and the Eight?  I know Sorabji is one of the composers covered in there.

Offline richard black

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #135 on: July 22, 2009, 08:49:35 AM
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It was my intention to typset some Woelfl, but is Sibelius the best tool for this??

If you've the patience, Score can give smarter results but these days Sibelius comes very close and I understand it's _considerably_ easier to use. Plus it gives you the option to share scores online via Scorch.
Instrumentalists are all wannabe singers. Discuss.

Offline richard black

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #136 on: July 22, 2009, 08:54:38 AM
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I'm also curious to know what is possible in terms of republishing works that are de facto out-of-print works (i.e. from defunct publishers, especially in Eastern Europe, former Soviet Union, etc., in some cases even America).

Contact your local music publishers' trade body and ask. Funnily enough, I was looking at the British Music Publishers' Association website last night -

www.mpaonline.org.uk

where there is a 'Code of practice' regarding copying and re-editing music. It may not apply letter-for-letter across the world, but the basic principles are probably much the same everywhere.
Instrumentalists are all wannabe singers. Discuss.

Offline indutrial

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #137 on: July 22, 2009, 05:59:10 PM
- I've done all sorts of other things, including 90% of Bentzon's Explosions for two pianos. I got the ms from one of his ex-students, so we can perform it (the ms sometimes only has 2 bars a page, so it is not very relaxing for the page turners).

I'm very interested in taking a shot at some of the numerous Bentzon works, but it's hard to tell what EWH owns rights to and what they don't own rights to. From what I've gathered, towards the end of his life, his dealings with that publisher were none too friendly, which definitely shows when you see how little they seem to give a crap about selling his scores. Last time I contacted them with questions about buying things, they never replied. Another time before that, they pretty much told me that they didn't have 2-3 items of his that I wanted, though they still list the works on their web page. A lot of his manuscripts are boxed up in the Copenhagen library, so maybe that's the place to look for a light at the end of the tunnel. However, since there's little chance I'll be able to quit work and spend a couple months in Denmark right now, I won't yet be checking that out in the foreseeable future.

Offline indutrial

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #138 on: July 22, 2009, 06:08:07 PM
What I need to do is start mobilizing more of the rich-kid musicians I've met, people who've got nothing but time on their hands. Instead of doing anything that resembles research or work (and most of them are so-called students in some regard), they're constantly on holiday in the Mediterranean or at home going to wine-tastings and weekends at the cape. One of my old friends is a composition student who came from mega-wealth and earned his master's in composition. Not only is he not really composing much but he admitted to me that he hadn't been in a music library in something like 4 years (and that was during school). I guess he attends an occasional recital just so that his colleagues don't assume him to be dead, but what the f**k... Pardon my aside, here. This is just something that gets my goat.

Offline ahinton

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #139 on: July 24, 2009, 05:45:50 PM
Who is Alexander Abercrombie, and why has he put so much time and effort into typesetting Sorabji's stuff?
A pianist, composer, mathematician and scholar who has (and continues to) put all that effort into this work because he wants to and is deeply committed to it.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline pies

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #140 on: July 25, 2009, 11:05:19 PM
z

Offline indutrial

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #141 on: July 26, 2009, 07:39:40 AM
Sounds like a huge nerd

Since when is anybody who knows Sorabji's name not a nerd to some extent. I do hope you're humble enough to realize that you are every bit as nerdy as anyone who's written on this thread, if not more so since you seem to care a lot about composers that nobody except nerdy fans of modern music care about (I speak, of course, from my own excessively-nerdtastic musical background). Any non-nerds that I've met in the music world are generally the types who are into music for the wrong reasons or in some jobbish respect that renders them inert in artistic terms.

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Can someone post an mp3 of the live broadcast of the solo concerto?  I had it at one point but I have no idea wt­f happened to it.  It's probably somewhere on one of my hard drives, but I don't want to look through 2 TB of sh­it.  Or maybe I deleted it.

Can't you just make the computer run a search on it's own? I'm no space engineer, but I'm pretty sure most modern computers will do that in the time that it takes to get a Hot Pocket in and out of the microwave, if not faster.

Offline ahinton

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #142 on: July 26, 2009, 08:45:49 AM
Sounds like a huge nerd
...from which "opinion" one is presumably intended to deduce that anyone who is a pianist, a composer, a mathematician or a scholar of any kind is a nerd; that would appear to identify many hundreds of thousands of people as nerds...

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline gep

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #143 on: July 26, 2009, 02:49:18 PM
And do not forget that it are usually the nerds that figure out things or invent things the rest of the world than happily uses (usually after stealing it out of the nerds hands first, that is).

Bill Gates was a nerd, I think. Your point, therefor, is...?
In the long run, any words about music are less important than the music. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not worth talking to (Shostakovich)

Offline ahinton

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #144 on: July 26, 2009, 06:40:53 PM
Thre is a phrase in english that almost rund "actions speak louder than nerds".

Anyway, let's forget that. I've just been listening to an advance copy of Vol. II of the 100 Transcendental Studies; believe me, it will be well worth the wait! Study 26 stands out above all the others of the disc (for me, at least, but that's as expected) and, among the CD's many and varied other delights, the left hand study has to be heard to be disbelieved - the opening of the fugue (a fughetta, really) that culminates that study has always afforded me a moment of wry amusement as its sets up an elegant false expectation of the fugue from the Brahms-Handel Variations!

Anyway, the disc as a whole is an utter triumph and Fredrik Ullén once again shows that he is in complete command of these studies, consummate virtuosity and penetrating insight going always hand in hand (or hand in the same hand in the case of the mano sinistra one).

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #145 on: July 26, 2009, 08:50:50 PM
What is special about No 26????

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline ahinton

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #146 on: July 26, 2009, 09:04:13 PM
What is special about No 26????
Wait until you get your own copy of this CD and judge for yourself; I heard the composer play it himself, some 40 years after writing it and it is clearly one of the highlights of the series. Fredrik Ullén writes of it in his liner notes:

"26. Dolcissimo. If the pieces on the first disc of the series all adhered to a traditional étude format, we now enter a diffeent world. Étude No. 26 is the first longer piece in the cycle, more of a fantasia or nocturne than an étude. This is a delicate piece of might music, with allusions to Debussy (e.g. Et la lune descend...) from the second book of Images). A background of repeated falling figures in open fifths and fourths shimmers like moonlight in the high descant above long, wandering melodic lines in the middle registers. This is one of the études of which there exists a sketchy but interesting private recording in the Frank Holliday Collection, made by Sorabji himself at a relatively advanced age."

Nothing quite like it appears earlier on the series (except, up to a point, no. 3, which explores similar ideas but on a much smaller scale).

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline pies

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #147 on: July 26, 2009, 09:37:17 PM
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Offline ahinton

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #148 on: July 26, 2009, 09:58:33 PM
The last two etudes are probably the most interesting in the entire set.  When will that recording come out?
As I have said before (and I am none the wiser since I did so), I cannot at this point give you or anyone else release dates for the remainder of this series. For the record, Vol.II is due out in September this year, Vol.III and part of Vol.IV has already been recorded and the entire series will likely stretch to a total of six CDs.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline pies

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Re: the music of K.S. Sorabji
Reply #149 on: July 27, 2009, 12:57:30 AM
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A previously unknown manuscript by Frédéric Chopin has been discovered at New York’s Morgan Library and Museum. The handwritten score is titled “Valse” and consists of 24 bars of music in the key of A minor and is considered a major discovery in the wold of classical piano music. Read more
 

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