National Socialism

[illuminist]

I thought i would bring this topic to mind

I do not support the crimes or national socialism in any way whatsoever - but i have always been intrigued to note that the nazis were what one would consider a very cultured movement - e.g. "Joseph Goebbels" politician and Reich Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany maintained control and influence over the press, radio, film, theatre, music, literature, and publishing etc....... his influence of course extended to the protector of the arts as well as their regulator which high culture(the symphony, opera, high art, world literature etc....) was the medium of influence in order to maintain identity of race, nation and blood, the ideal of a germany with heritage and history to justify the german races political struggle(it was called the "Volkisch movement) and ambitions which propaganda through this medium could establish the desired result

personally in my opinion, i think regardless of the National Socialists political ambitions and the crimes that was committed against humanity - their was a lot the nazis could have done in a positive framework if only the ideals which were being perpetrated weren't for deception - power - and control(not that it could of been anything else;D)

e.g. - look at modern day society right now, the various forms of culture which are the product of absolute mindless sh*t such as rap music etc... and the negative affects such an influence has on society at large, in particular here i am using rap music as a singular example although not limited to what i am targeting.  the byproduct of what this image manifests not only encourages a lack of morals towards society but goes hand in hand with the various problems of which humanity has to face as a whole, an example would be to present it's relationship to the issue of boy racers, the situation of a bunch of wet behind the ear teenagers driving motor vehicles endangering other peoples lives for the sake of personal enjoyment aside from showing humanity at large that they have a penis size beyond measurement and proportion - yet it's only reasonable for young people to make mistakes and break the rules set forth and that is understandable - yet what i am trying to present is that it's not limited to young people and their desire to drive fast and endanger others, it's the image which supports such behavior which in this case rap music is what escalates violence - theft and intolerance and dangerous driving lol, of course that is speculation which does seem unfounded to me, yet i do see a lot of these youngsters driving fast cars with the rap music blazing at a million decibels as well as on the music channels which makes me wonder if the various forms of culture which propagates this image does support the various problems of which society has to face without an explanation as to how these problems manifest or can be solved(i guess it's either youth and their willingness to rebel against structure and order that is put in place to stop such things from happening - or it's the government which fails to set the boundaries)

[term]

e.g. - look at modern day society right now, the various forms of culture which are the product of absolute mindless sh*t such as rap music etc... and the negative affects such an influence has on society at large, in particular here i am using rap music as a singular example although not limited to what i am targeting.  the byproduct of what this image manifests not only encourages a lack of morals towards society but goes hand in hand with the various problems of which humanity has to face as a whole, an example would be to present it's relationship to the issue of boy racers, the situation of a bunch of wet behind the ear teenagers driving motor vehicles endangering other peoples lives for the sake of personal enjoyment aside from showing humanity at large that they have a penis size beyond measurement and proportion -

You talk like an 80 year old. Go ahead just grab a couple of scapegoats and blame loss everything on them, sounds like a creative new idea. Has it ever occured to you that the music you don't like to hear and all the cultural products that are put out are themselves a consequence of society?

it's the government which fails to set the boundaries)

I don't think the government has any business of setting boundaries except general ones like laws. Why can't you cope with minor issues in your environment such as rebelling teenagers and loud unfamiliar music? And while we're at it, do you actually seek answers to what appears to you undesriable in society or do you just want a target to direct your anger to?

[illuminist]

It is a personal opinion - that is all

nothing to direct my anger towards (maybe i don't know - i guess that is up to you to define lol  ) after all i am human and anger is as natural as happiness ( i consider my self a optimist)   

oh and i do certainly seek answers to the consequences of a image which propagates  ideals detrimental to humanity and that is a fact (once again maybe not - i don't actually know - i guess that is up to you decide what is a fact and what is not as you are entitled to an opinion as am i)

third of all - the music i certainly do not like to hear as well as the result of such actions of which a carried out through the medium of such an "image" is certainly a consequence of society itself, couldn't agree more - couldn't have said it better myself.


in the end it is just an opinion - not a belief of blind fanaticism comparable to a fundamentalist christian of which truth is not reasonable to question (unless of course that is you're opinion lol which would be funny as i am not religious - but oh well once again you are entitled to you're freedom of speech)
 

[Petter]

I thought i would bring this topic to mind

I do not support the crimes or national socialism in any way whatsoever - but i have always been intrigued to note that the nazis were what one would consider a very cultured movement - e.g. "Joseph Goebbels" politician and Reich Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany maintained control and influence over the press, radio, film, theatre, music, literature, and publishing etc....... his influence of course extended to the protector of the arts as well as their regulator which high culture(the symphony, opera, high art, world literature etc....) was the medium of influence in order to maintain identity of race, nation and blood, the ideal of a germany with heritage and history to justify the german races political struggle(it was called the "Volkisch movement) and ambitions which propaganda through this medium could establish the desired result

personally in my opinion, i think regardless of the National Socialists political ambitions and the crimes that was committed against humanity - their was a lot the nazis could have done in a positive framework if only the ideals which were being perpetrated weren't for deception - power - and control(not that it could of been anything else;D)

Yea banning the music of Mahler, Schönberg, Bartok, Hindemith and Korngold. What a GREAT idea!!! Not like they proved to be among the most influential composers of the whole 20th century or anything. And painters like Chagall, Matisse, Van Gogh, Picasso, Dali, Miro. Burn in it all!!! Impressionist and expressionist movements were banned. What another GREAT idea!

[michel dvorsky]

This guy is an absolute crank.

[drpiano]

This guy is an absolute crank.

I sure hope so. I can't imagine a worse place to look for a political model. Any musing that begins with: "they had some good ideas if you can look past the psychotic genocidal intentions and millions of murders" is not likely to end with any lucid conclusions. (As demonstrated by the OP)

[illuminist]

The reason specific movements of art were banned is because of the detrimental effect of justifying a history and heritage of the german cause which propaganda was the means to achieve these ends(thank Goebbels).

don't get me wrong - there is no way these circumstances can be viewed correctly in a positive light - yet in my opinion the manipulation of culture to achieve an ideal that becomes the worst of humanity still continues to this very day in my personal opinion (look at rap music)

in terms of a political model that exemplifies murder without lucid explanation, well first of all mate you need to get you're facts straight - genocide has and will always be committed throughout history, look at what happened to the native americans during the American revolution, you cannot tell me they didn't get screwed over to put it blunt as with the aboriginals of Australia, Joseph Stalin  launched the Great Purge (also known as the "Great Terror"), which was a campaign to purge the Communist Party of people accused of corruption or treachery; he extended it to the military and other sectors of Soviet society. Targets were often executed, imprisoned in Gulag labor camps or exiled. In the years following, millions of ethnic minorities were also deported killing far more than a mere 6 million jews if you are looking for numbers to justify a nations crimes, look at the efforts attempted to establish colonial power by the British Empire - they instigated the same racial prejudices as the nazi's whence establishing power in the name of the crown(india and africa as a notable example), another brilliant example would have to be the native's of New Zealand(the maoris) when they had settled there they committed acts of cannibalism eating the actual native inhabitants of the land(the moriori's.

so you see - the concentration camps was not a relatively new idea nor was the attempt to justify and exterminate a entire race - realistically how else do you think the nazis managed to assume political power and control? without having basis of history of previous empires of which to model their goals.

criticize National Socialism as much as you want for the atrocities that were committed under it's banner, yet it has been done over and over again throughout history throughout nearly all cultures loooooooooooolllllllll

[drpiano]

Genocide will always be with us, eh? Thanks for the tip.
Do you think that Stalinist Russia is a better example for a society to follow?
Or European states during the height of imperialism? Of course, many societies during many periods weren't animated by these types of racial prejudices and were much more humane- why not look to those societies to see how to create decent policies? They're not so hard to find if you look.

[illuminist]

Please do enlighten me dr piano, tell me what societies their have been free from racial prejudice on the verge of destroying an entire race or culture?

if you're saying free of racial distinction, yet slave labor as the very foundation of a societies structure then i can definitely agree with you lol

[richard black]

It is odd how totalitarian governments seem often to take a more active interest in the arts (not necessarily a positive interest) than more democratic ones. Look at Stalin - the man was evil to the core but took a strong personal interest in classical music in the USSR. I'm not sure whether musicians should take that as a horribly backhanded compliment or what!

[indutrial]

Look at Stalin - the man was evil to the core but took a strong personal interest in classical music in the USSR. I'm not sure whether musicians should take that as a horribly backhanded compliment or what!

The amount of effort that it took to resurrect a composer as valuable as Roslavets makes me think that government intervention in the arts can only cause hardship, no matter how many state-sponsored works come out. Similarly, the fact that author Mikhail Bulgakov died twenty-five years before his masterpiece saw even partial publication is pretty harrowing to even imagine.

[Petter]

I wonder what north korean music sounds like. I think they play accordion in huge crowds...