what do we think about people like this?

[anafressari]

https://www.youtube.com/user/rolipoli

[ramseytheii]

Just another guy that can't just play how he likes - everyone else has to be wrong.

Yawn!

Walter Ramsey

[perfect_pitch]

He's pretty much screwed up most of the tempos in a lot of his videos... His performance of Chopins Prelude in c minor Op 20 is like a third of the tempo - It's bizarre, and I don't know what the hell is with all the excess body movement.

I have no respect for people like him who can't take a little criticism.

[birba]

There's an italian expression for this: "Mah!".

[db05]

I can't criticize him because he DOES play, and plays better than I. What's up with the attitude though? Come to think of it, he's not the only one with an attitude among musicians... And excess body movement...

[lostinidlewonder]

db I think some of your recordings are better than this guy. Also you are a lot more humble They must have very bad teachers where he's from, since he says he is more talented than ALL of the teachers.

"...in fact, im light years more talented than all the teachers i meet"

Wow! If that is his talent then he must never practice at all.

I think these people are trying to provoke us, either that or they seriously suffer delusions of grandeur.

[db05]

db I think some of your recordings are better than this guy. Also you are a lot more humble

Methinks it's better to be overconfident than humble but with no self-confidence. But thanks for the compliment, sir.

lol, teachers don't have to be talented at piano, but willing and able to teach. Being more talented does not mean you don't need a teacher, nor does it mean you can get away with playing without practicing at all. A true talent would know the benefits of such things... I think... 

[sharon_f]

I believe the internet offers us wonderful things: information, knowledge, discussion, exposure to other people and cultures, beauty, entertainment. Unfortunately it also has fostered an extraordinary form of rampant narcissism that I originally thought was only an American thing. Now I see it is world-wide. 

[perfect_pitch]

I believe the internet offers us wonderful things: information, knowledge, discussion, exposure to other people and cultures, beauty, entertainment. Unfortunately it also has fostered an extraordinary form of rampant narcissism that I originally thought was only an American thing. Now I see it is world-wide. 

Welcome to the human species... Depressing isn't it???

[communist]

We have 1 or 2 people like him on the forum.

[richard black]

Well, he's a little eccentric, to put it mildly, but if he's really self-taught he's not bad. Gets a nice sound out of that piano. Not quite my taste though...

[Bob]

I clicked on a couple pieces.  Piano was out of tune and he paused awhile between phrases.  What was it on that site that I'm missing?

[thierry13]

He deserves death.

[weissenberg2]

He deserves death.

a little harsh. don't you think?

[db05]

Well, he's a little eccentric, to put it mildly, but if he's really self-taught he's not bad. Gets a nice sound out of that piano. Not quite my taste though...

That's what I thought, too.

[welltemperedpianist]

He deserves death.

HAHA

thats harsh... i mean com'on. His Chopin is objectively the "BEST" rendition.
You're just jealous

 

[Bob]

Oh I see.  Highlight the whole screen and you can read it.  Strange coloring.

Somewhat impressive if it's all completely self-taught.  I wonder what he could do if he took lessons.

I do wonder how he expects to pick up the style correctly if he doesn't have a teacher.  Recordings?  Lots of reading and study?    But he's not "academical."  Haha. 

Whatever floats his boat. 

[db05]

I do wonder how he expects to pick up the style correctly if he doesn't have a teacher.  Recordings?  Lots of reading and study?    But he's not "academical."  Haha. 

Of course he listens to recordings. Otherwise, how would he know his rendition is best? 
I'm not fond of teachers insisting on the same sorts of style, either. Maybe he HAD a teacher, and got fed up with it.

[ramseytheii]

I do wonder how he expects to pick up the style correctly if he doesn't have a teacher.  Recordings?  Lots of reading and study?    But he's not "academical."  Haha. 

Whatever floats his boat. 

What is correct style?  Sixty years ago, nobody would have imagined playing Bach like Glenn Gould did, and yet now almost everybody imitates him, consciously or unconsciously.  Horowitz played Chopin in a way that was totally individual, and seemingly influenced by Scriabin's fanastical textures, and who complains about the style?

Any piece of music worth the paper its printed on will be able to hold up being heard in so many different lights.

The problem here for me is people like this guy, don't just play the way they want to.  They have to justify themselves by saying everyone else is wrong, doesn't know anything, and they know better.  Just shut up and play.  If it's different, let someone else notice it.  Otherwise you are just revealing how ridiculous you really are.

These days especially the world of Classical music seems to have a bit of "program fatigue."  People are looking for new things to play (but rarely looking at newly composed pieces).  I hear all the time, "Nobody plays this piece."  Someone brought out a moldy old score of Chopin's first sonata and said, "Nobody plays this piece, what's wrong with them?"  It's the same attitude.  Everybody else has no clue, and you are the only one who realizes.

First of all there is a reason nobody plays Chopin's first sonata, just like there is a reason nobody plays piano like this guy.  They sound terrible.  But if you truly loved Chopin's first sonata, and played it all over the world, somebody else would say, "Look at what so-and-so is doing; nobody else plays that sonata, and he loves it.  There must be something in it."  Or if you are Glenn Gould, travelling the world and playing your unique way, it falls to somebody else to try and analyze and get at the heart of what you are doing.

Anytime you hear someone say, "Everybody else is wrong," you can be sure that person is an ignorant fool, who just desires to be noticed, and the only way they can think to do it, is by putting everybody else down.  Or trying to - nobody really cares.

Walter Ramsey

[Bob]

Historically accurate.  Or at least "accepted" by the world as being the standard style.  If you're only practicing on your own and have nothing else but the music to go by, I don't think the music is going to give all the information needed for a more accurate performance.  You need someone to tell/show you or a recording.



The idea of just playing whatever you feel is interesting though.

[perfect_pitch]

I was shocked when I saw this as one of his comments on one of his crappy videos - I think it was his Prelude No. 2 in c minor

chopin can kiss my butt.... if he leaved his legacy to be played as he wanted, he is the bigest and most miserable egoist on the world.... and i think he is not

I mean c'mon... He was arguing that he's allowed to change the tempo, dynamics etc... because it's what he wants....

Yeah - lets just all play the pieces how WE WANT...   God I hate people like this...

Theirry13 - I like the way you think.   

[bandnel]

https://www.youtube.com/user/rolipoli

Incredible,he play piano very well.

[ramseytheii]

Historically accurate.  Or at least "accepted" by the world as being the standard style.  If you're only practicing on your own and have nothing else but the music to go by, I don't think the music is going to give all the information needed for a more accurate performance.  You need someone to tell/show you or a recording.



The idea of just playing whatever you feel is interesting though.

I have to fundamentally disagree with the notion of a historically accurate performance style.  First of all, style originates in a human being, it is not an objective notion that exists outside of anyone's individual piano playing.  

What I mean is this: when Beethoven played, people commented that every bar seemed to be in a different tempo.  Every phrase seemed to have a pacing that corresponded to its emotional import.  But when Czerny played, everything was more metrically structured.  Czerny was a student of Beethoven, and taught generations of students.  Whose style is historically accurate?

Chopin was criticized by Meyerbeer for adding beats to his Mazurkas; to Meyerbeer, they felt as if they were in 4.  I have never heard a pianist who played the Mazurkas that made me feel there were four beats in the bar.  And I have heard some very free Mazurkas.  Compare the 1930's recordings of Rubinstein, with the 1950-60's recordings, and tell me, which style is historically accurate?

Take the case of Ravel.  Ravel is famous as saying that his music should be performed exactly as written, with no deviations from the rhythms unless marked (in other words no rubato, no changes of time unless specified), and no deviations from the dynamics.  Play for me one recording made by Ravel that corresponds with the music on the page.  You will not be able to.  However you may argue that Ravel was an inferior pianist, which is true.  Let's listen then to his friend and colleague Cortot.  In Cortot's Jeux d'eau, not only is it very free with the time, he even adds a bar on the first page.  Now we know that Cortot studied Ravel's works with him.  Therefore, which style is historically accurate?

Clara Schumann worshipped Brahms, but criticized his rhythmically flexible piano playing.  We know that he entrusted her with works like op.9, op.15, op.24.  We don't know how he played them exactly, but probably we can guess that it was very different from the way Clara Schumann played them.  (In fact, you can hear a student of Clara Schumann's play Brahms late pieces on record).  Were we to imagine one player as rhythmically free and improvisatory, and one as more strict, which style is historically accurate?

We know that Liszt improvised during his performances of pieces like the Hungarian Rhapsodies.  Does that mean it is historically inaccurate to play strictly from the score?

Food for thoughts!

Walter Ramsey

[thierry13]

I just can't stand people like him existing. And if I would have to be jealous of someone, it would have to Richter, not this stupid idiot.

[m19834]

Walter, I suppose as you mentioned you are mainly just providing food for thought.  I am not meaning to point out anything directly related to the OP's post, but rather on the subject that has surfaced.  In thinking about it, I just have to point out (perhaps not for your benefit, but in light of your points anyway), that in each case you mentioned, you are talking about pianists/musicians whom have put years of thoughtful practice into their musical decisions.  And, there is a big difference between taking a piece of music, and taking into consideration even what a composer him/herself requests (if we are so lucky to actually even talk with them !), digesting the musical ideas through a digestive system that is knowledgeable on musical matters from many perspectives and perhaps more conscious of artistic matters in general, vs. giving no thought whatsoever to how the piece works and deciding to just play it the way one "feels like" playing it in that moment.

In other words, there is a big difference between "joe blow" sitting in his basement with no understanding of music theory or history or perhaps any culture beyond his two video-game-playing thumbs, vs. Glenn Gould having spent a lifetime with music and deeply pondering the essence of many musical texts, realizing one day something in a specific way because of a coincidence with the vacuum.

It's similar to the difference between a master chef putting his/her own unique signature on a masterpiece dish of lamb chops and mint sauce, vs. someone randomly walking into a kitchen, believing him/herself a master chef but not actually knowing much of anything, making scrambled eggs and deciding to call it "lamb chops with mint sauce" just because s/he "feels like it," when in reality, s/he didn't know how to make lamb chops, and doesn't know what mint sauce even IS    !  Not truly even comparable dishes by the same name.

[db05]

Not necessarily in defense of the pianist here... but WHO KNOWS how much effort and time were put into these recordings? Except for the arrogance, we don't know jack about the pianist. For all I know, that whole attitude thing might just be a cover. What if he's been studying for years with the best teacher in town?

[m19834]

My points are not directed toward the pianist in the video, but rather toward the attitude that suggests that master pianists whom have arrived at the decisions they have, even when apparently contrary to what has happened before, that it is fundamentally somehow the same as the idea that "anything goes" by anybody under the sun, no matter what training is (or is not) involved.  It seems there is a whole (growing) culture that doesn't think there is a difference.

[db05]

Oh. Didn't see the last part in the comment above. Good point. Delicious, too. Delicious difference. Hmmm.

[perfect_pitch]

For all I know, that whole attitude thing might just be a cover. What if he's been studying for years with the best teacher in town?

REALLY??? If he has - he doesn't show it in his videos then. Because his performance of Chopins Etude No. 9 is atrocious.... and I mean - really bad.

[csharp_minor]

His performance of Chopins Prelude in c minor Op 20 is like a third of the tempo - It's bizarre, and I don't know what the hell is with all the excess body movement.

lol and whats with the spooky costume and candle! I think its for atmosphere, coz he just killed the atmosphere of that piece but playing it so slowly. I almost couldn’t breathe it sounded so constipated.   

Maybe I should take note from this guy and pratice at that speed, my teacher always tells me to slow down. Personally I don't mind people like this, they are harmless and somewhat amusing.

[csharp_minor]

Chopin was criticized by Meyerbeer for adding beats to his Mazurkas; to Meyerbeer, they felt as if they were in 4.  I have never heard a pianist who played the Mazurkas that made me feel there were four beats in the bar.

Apparently Chopin got really angry with Meyerbeer about this, as he said one of this mazurkas was in 2/4. Chopin got so angry he played it 3 times and counted the timing aloud ( Meyerbeer must have been wrong) . Some else mentioned some of his mazurkas were in 4/4, and when they counted the timing they were in 4/4 ( when Chopin played ).

   

[ramseytheii]

Apparently Chopin got really angry with Meyerbeer about this, as he said one of this mazurkas was in 2/4. Chopin got so angry he played it 3 times and counted the timing aloud ( Meyerbeer must have been wrong) . Some else mentioned some of his mazurkas were in 4/4, and when they counted the timing they were in 4/4 ( when Chopin played ).

   

I don't think it was a question of, was Chopin right, and Meyerbeer wrong.  This anecdote illustrates to me, that Chopin played his Mazurkas with a very strong and characteristic rhythmic lilting, which Meyerbeer, who was a conductor by the way, insisted on counting literally.

This is a good anecdote because it is an analogy for our times.  On one hand, we have the creative, who approach works with freedom, character, and spiritual (as opposed to literal) insight.  On the other hand, we have the literalists, those who say, that isn't rubato, that's an extra beat.  Those for whom counting is always metrical, and any deviation from a strict, unchanging meter is considered in a mathematical light.

Although my preference is clear, I cannot say, one side is wrong, and the other side is right.  If other pianists played Mazurkas the way Chopin might have played them, we would almost certainly tell that person that they were in the wrong.

Another instance to consider is the case of Vladimir de Pachmann, who became a celebrity in the music world before the advent of recording, but lasted long enough to make records.  His performances are entrancing, but considered old-fashioned and stylistically deficient.  However Liszt told de Pachmann that he played Chopin's nocturnes better than Chopin played them himself.  Should we thus consider, that one way of doing it is right, and one way is wrong? 

Walter Ramsey

[csharp_minor]

I don't think it was a question of, was Chopin right, and Meyerbeer wrong.  This anecdote illustrates to me, that Chopin played his Mazurkas with a very strong and characteristic rhythmic lilting, which Meyerbeer, who was a conductor by the way, insisted on counting literally.

I don't mean Chopin must have been right and Meyerbeer wrong in the interpretation in playing the piece. Its from the source of the infomation I got about this. Chopin got so angry because he was taping the beat on the piano for a student first but Meyerbeer insisted it was in 2/4. Chopin got so angry he played the piece and counted the timing out aloud to prove Meyerbeer wrong. With the other person Chopin agreed that he was playing that mazurka in 4/4.

I was only backing up your comment with a bit more infomation because I found it Interesting and happened to know what you were talking about.

[silverchair87]

I was shocked when I saw this as one of his comments on one of his crappy videos - I think it was his Prelude No. 2 in c minor

chopin can kiss my butt.... if he leaved his legacy to be played as he wanted, he is the bigest and most miserable egoist on the world.... and i think he is not

I mean c'mon... He was arguing that he's allowed to change the tempo, dynamics etc... because it's what he wants....

Yeah - lets just all play the pieces how WE WANT...   God I hate people like this...

Theirry13 - I like the way you think.   

Why should he not play it how he likes? Millions of people do it. The whole playing "historically accurate" performances and "stylistically" can be taken basically 2 ways: you either do it, or don't, and he's obviously decided he won't...or he can't, either way, but I don't think his thoughts should be completely ignored.

I wouldn't agree with him, I strive to play as historically accurate performances as possible, but there are many people who don't strive to perform in this way and he may be 1 of them.

In fairness I haven't watched his videos because I'm so far from interested.

I've just been spending the last year exploring my musical thoughts and thought patterns and this is 1 argument I've had with myself and other people many times during this process (which is continual).

This idea of stylistic performances is highly personal and what 1 person likes, another person might not like...

hm...

[Petter]

You dorks, there's thousands of videos like this on youtube but also thousands of amazing videos with great pianists playing, why waste so much energy on the ones not worth mentioning.

[l. ron hubbard]

I think the overall debate reached such acrimonious ideas because simply, the pianist uses the internet as a medium for communication. As everyone to some extent knows, everyone lies on the internet to various degrees. It is unsound to make snap judgments about a particular that doesn't fit in with our current expectations of things. Whilst I highly doubt that the said pianist in question did not have any forms of established tutoring, it is not out of possibility that he is indeed self-taught. He did in fact mention that he was "light years ahead" of the teachers he apparently met. At the very least, this says to me that he infact did seek some form of counseling, but later refused to pursue it.

If we are to reach a degree of mutual consensus, then we would have to agree on the evidence the subject presents, while at the same time keeping in mind that the evidence is by no means bulletproof.

[birba]

I wonder if he's "listening" in now and laughing hysterically.

[silverchair87]

I wouldn't be surprised lol. I don't bother my backside searching on youtube unless I'm looking for a specific performer...not worth the time, but I do see why people post on there.

This is all very silly really.

[giannalinda]

He was horrible...plain and simple answer...dude!!! listen to the recording!!!! I  would be embarrassed to post something like that.

[thierry13]

He was horrible...plain and simple answer...dude!!! listen to the recording!!!! I  would be embarrassed to post something like that.

But he is! That's why he's so arrogant about it.

[giannalinda]

But he is! That's why he's so arrogant about it.

Then if hes so embarrassed about it why did he post it?

[thierry13]

Then if hes so embarrassed about it why did he post it?

He's just like Richard Kastle. He wants to be recognised as a genius but while doing so only proves his own stupidity. They both deserve death. Honestly.

[omar_roy]

To be honest, what does it matter how he plays?  It's not directly affecting any of us, and if that's how he wants to play, then so be it.  It's not our place to tell him how and how not to play regardless of whether or not we agree with him.  I'm sure many of us even disagree with the way some of the greatest virtuosos play things, yet we accept their interpretation as their own.  I despise this guy's playing, and I even made a post on his profile, but I've come to realize something very simple: He just doesn't matter.  He's not going to change, and he's not going to change anybody.  Most people recognize that he's an idiot. 

Regardless of his arrogance, the most important thing is that he's turning the music into something that's important to him, and if that makes him happy, then that's fine.  None of us have to listen to him, and he's not asking us to either.  So even though he's a buffoon, it's best to just leave it alone and not care.

[giannalinda]

He's just like Richard Kastle. He wants to be recognised as a genius but while doing so only proves his own stupidity. They both deserve death. Honestly.

lol

[ramseytheii]

To be honest, what does it matter how he plays?  It's not directly affecting any of us, and if that's how he wants to play, then so be it.  It's not our place to tell him how and how not to play regardless of whether or not we agree with him.  I'm sure many of us even disagree with the way some of the greatest virtuosos play things, yet we accept their interpretation as their own.  I despise this guy's playing, and I even made a post on his profile, but I've come to realize something very simple: He just doesn't matter.  He's not going to change, and he's not going to change anybody.  Most people recognize that he's an idiot. 

Regardless of his arrogance, the most important thing is that he's turning the music into something that's important to him, and if that makes him happy, then that's fine.  None of us have to listen to him, and he's not asking us to either.  So even though he's a buffoon, it's best to just leave it alone and not care.

I like this post!  I think it's very honest and very good.

I think one reason people want to address things like this, is that his attitude causes anxiety in others.  People who are not secure in their interpretations, not secure in their approach, hear his incendiary playing, and start to question whether he is right, because he is so sure of himself.  Look at the topic of this post: "What do we think about people like this?"  I could answer in just a couple of words, but there are people out there that worry he's on to something.

That's of course healthy, but I think it should be pointed out that this person has a narcissistic personality disorder.  You (the poster I quoted) seem to be normal and well-adjusted; you said for instance, "I'm sure many of us even disagree with the way some of the greatest virtuosos play things, yet we accept their interpretation as their own."  This piano player, though, in order to be right, requires everyone else to be wrong.  That's a sign of severe narcissistic personality disorder.  You can't just do what you like; you have to insist that nobody else knows what they are doing, and you are the only one.

I think that bears pointing out, because if you love music, you don't want anybody to think they have to play like this guy.  And some people, who don't have a lot of exposure or experience, might turn down this unbearably noisy path.

Walter Ramsey

[thierry13]

lol

Just like Rita Skeeter and Dolores Umbridge.

[omar_roy]

Mr. Ramsey,
I'm glad at least somebody thinks I'm relatively sane!

Regardless of his disorder, I think what matters most is that his exposure is so low in comparison to so many other great pianists, that even if they do see this and even like it, they will see the others and how much better they are than him.  YouTube is such a large venue that his will never be the first result to show up.  And anyone that has a good teacher will tell their students not to play like that.  So I'm not really worried about any future pianists with little to no experience because they will listen, they will learn, and they will develop their own musical personality and style.

If anything, I'm worried about the guy in the videos! He's gonna destroy his ears with such a poorly tuned instrument, and he needs mental help too!

[db05]

db I think some of your recordings are better than this guy.

I know. My guitar is wayyyyyyyy better than his, lol.

Seriously though, I learned Chopin - Waltz in Ab "L'adieu" and his was a lot better than mine. It's taken me so long, and I had considered it done before I watched the vid, and now I'm all insecure with my playing! Teacher has already had me move on, and I don't know what to do! 

[nanabush]

Ugh, some of the Scriabin I was unfamiliar with so I couldn't really say much about that... but seriously the B minor Chopin Prelude was damn awful - and he's saying "best rendition, I'm arrogant aren't I".  It'd be one thing if he posted those videos then asked for criticism - some people do that on youtube, and get feedback.  He's exactly like Richard Kastle, except instead of trying to convince people that Horowitz skips notes on HR2, this guy will soon have butchered every single one of Chopin's Preludes.