General consensus on Moonlight Sonata & Fur Elise and other questions

[nosrepemos]

Hey all, first post here, woo, whatever  .

So I have finally decided, after a ~5-6 year break from piano lessons, that I want to return to the great artform that is piano music.

I have restarted my lessons a couple of weeks ago with the same teacher as before, and with a schedule of meeting every Thursday for 30 minutes. When asked about what she thought my grade level was after playing some old pieces from my old lesson books, she said 'intermediate', whatever that means.

All I know is I can play Franz Schubert's The Unfinished Symphony and his Serenade with relative ease, only having problems with getting the timing right on the triplets for Serenade. Both of these are in the book Piano Pieces for ChildrenThose are the only two assignments I got so far, having started so recently.


Righty then, enough about me, and on to the main subject! I am currently learning the first movement of the Moonlight Sonata, and actually have been for the last few weeks. It's a very moving piece, and right now I am working on bringing out the emotions in the music, and getting it smooth in general.

Now, my questions about the sonata are:
1. Is it generally look down upon intermediate players who only learn the first movement of the sonata and give nary a wink to the second and third movements? I surely want to learn the last movement, and the second movement 'seems' easy, but I know both are out of my grasp compared to the relative ease of the first movement. And I know that when you learn a sonata, you're supposed to learn all the movements in them, but I think the only movement I can learn & play here without absolutely butchering it is the first movement. Just wondering about your opinions on this issue.
2. What do you think the tempo of the first movement should be? I personally defy the alla breve notation and prefer to take the Adagio Sostenuto tempo marking very literally, playing it slow and drawn out, because I think it accentuates the melancholic feeling of the piece very nicely. However, I want to know if you guys think I'm doin' it wrong, or if the 'it's your own interpretation' excuse will work here.
3. Finally, my teacher said that recitals will be during the last week of either October or November. I am confident I can get my technical ability up by then, and I want to make the Moonlight Sonata First Movement my recital piece. I am wondering if this is a good idea? Would a returning intermediate player be able to express all of the feeling of this piece during a recital? Or should I choose something else as a recital piece?

On to the next subject, Fur Elise. Yes, that quintessential piece that everyone and their grandmother/father/uncle/brother/cousin can play. Even I remember playing it for a recital during my earlier years, although that was a fairly simplified version of only the first 'section' of the piece (the one with all the arpeggios, if you know what I mean.)

Now I want to learn the whole piece properly, but I am having doubts about it:
1. Would it be advisable to skip on this piece for now due to its immense popularity? I don't want to be 'yet another person who can play Fur Elise, yet poorly.'
2. If I were to learn it, how hard are the other 'sections' after the first one like? I'd imagine they'd be harder in comparison to the part with the arpeggios, but how much harder?

Finally, other questions:
1. Could you recommend any good books for an intermediate returning player? Right now, I have Piano Pieces for Children, The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises, Developing Artist Piano Literature Book 3 by Faber, and some Scales & Arpeggios exercise book which I forget the name of.
2. What are some nice pieces for an intermediate student to practice? Keyword here being 'nice', obviously you'll get really bored if you practice really boring pieces, so I'm mainly looking for pieces with some emotion in them, similar to the Moonlight Sonata.
3. And are there any good sites with free downloadable sheet music? I know, sure I could simply pay the minuscule 5 dollars a month here, but being a jobless and credit-card-less 16 year old doesn't help my case.

Thanks in advance, and thanks for tolerating my TL;DRness!

[csharp_minor]

Hey all, first post here, woo, whatever  .

So I have finally decided, after a ~5-6 year break from piano lessons, that I want to return to the great artform that is piano music.

Hi and welcome to the piano again.

2. What do you think the tempo of the first movement should be? I personally defy the alla breve notation and prefer to take the Adagio Sostenuto tempo marking very literally, playing it slow and drawn out, because I think it accentuates the melancholic feeling of the piece very nicely. However, I want to know if you guys think I'm doin' it wrong, or if the 'it's your own interpretation' excuse will work here.

Someone a few weeks ago posted this You Tube video about the sonata and I found it useful.
Its Andras Schiff's lecture on Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata, it has infomation on all 3 movements:

I hope you find it useful!

2. What are some nice pieces for an intermediate student to practice? Keyword here being 'nice', obviously you'll get really bored if you practice really boring pieces, so I'm mainly looking for pieces with some emotion in them, similar to the Moonlight Sonata.

Some of Greig's lyric pieces would be nice, or some of the pieces from Schumann's Kinderszenen maybe Beethovens Op 49 sonatas would be good to get you back into playing again, as far as I know these are intermediate pieces, in no expert btw!

 

[nosrepemos]

Hi and welcome to the piano again.


Someone a few weeks ago posted this You Tube video about the sonata and I found it useful.
Its Andras Schiff's lecture on Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata, it has infomation on all 3 movements:

I hope you find it useful!

Some of Greig's lyric pieces would be nice, or some of the pieces from Schumann's Kinderszenen maybe Beethovens Op 49 sonatas would be good to get you back into playing again, as far as I know these are intermediate pieces, in no expert btw!

 

Thanks, just listened to the lecture you posted, it was very insightful and I learned many new things about the sonata's form, although I personally disagree with the speed at which he plays the first movement. I mean I don't play it as slowly at the part when he says it's so slow you can eat breakfast, lunch, dinner.. But I think that it should be somewhere between deathly slow and chipperingly fast, edging just a little bit more on the slower side. Again though, I'll just use the typical 'my own interpretation' excuse.

I'll also look into getting that Schumann collection and those Beethoven sonatas.

Thanks again csharp_minor for help with those issues, anyone else up for helping me on the other questions?

[chopinfan_22]

Yay!! Welcome back to it! :-)

I would be considered intermediate. I've played for a total of five years, and currently don't have a teacher because I'm going through nursing school right now, and don't have access to an instrument to practice regularly anyway... but when I can, I practice and play the pieces that I am learning, though slowly. Anyway. As far as your questions....

For Moonlight:

1. Learning just one movement when you are only an intermediate player is definitely not looked down upon! I did it, and let's face it... for someone to expect you to learn the third movement when you are only intermediate is just... moronic. The second movement is a completely different story. I honestly think it is accessible to you. The notes are simple, the rhythm isn't too difficult, it just may take you a while to get it up to the proper tempo.

2. The tempo of the first movement... Well, everyone interprets certain aspects of tempo. When you really think about it, tempo is a relative term. For me to play the first movement at a performance, perfectly, takes me about six to six and a half minutes. I take it very slowly, very expressively, and I agree with you, playing it as such brings out the emotion and melancholy of the piece. Ultimately, do what you feel is best.

3. October/November is five months away. I learned this piece under the same circumstances that you did, and I accomplished it. It took me two months to have the piece completely memorized. That gives you an additional three months to polish it up with the emotion/expressiveness you desire. I don't think it's foolish at all. Quite the opposite, I think it's a wonderful goal. And once you accomplish that goal, you'll feel rewarded for your hard work.

For Fur Elise:

1. Learning it is totally up to you. If you don't want to learn it because it's just a piece that everyone knows, then don't learn it. No one says that in order to be a successful pianist you HAVE to learn fur elise because EVERYONE knows how to play it and you should too. So do as you wish.

2. If you choose to learn the entire piece... the arppeggios aren't necessary difficult for me, but I have a span of an 11th. Difficulty is again, relative, because different pianists find different things to be difficult. For what it's worth, most pianists learn fur elise before learning moonlight. Asking your teacher is never a bad idea, either. She/He will know.

For your other questions:

1. I recommend Chopin: First Book for Pianists, or Bach: First Book for Pianists, or any of the (Composer): First Book for Pianists. Most of the pieces in those books range from easy to intermediate. They have very nice selections, if you ask me.


2. As far as pieces... soooo many. I would recommend any of the easier Chopin Preludes: Op. 28, Nos. 4, 6, 7, 9, and 20. You may even find Raindrop, No.15, to be accessible. Chopin is very expressive, and the preludes are wonderful introductions to his pieces. Even though some find Bach boring, I find some of his pieces to be wonderful, namely, the 2-Part Inventions, which are around intermediate/early Advanced in difficulty, and the 2-part inventions will teach you contrapuntal playing, composition, and finger/hand independence. You could also look at Beethovens Bagatelles. Those aren't too bad, or his Sonatas Op. 49. You could also look into Erik Satie's Gymnopedies. My favorite is the third, very expressive, and simple to play. Possibly some Sonatinas by Clementi or Kuhlau, or some of Mozarts easier works, maybe the Sonata K.545. You'll recognize it, though it has it's difficult spots. The second movement is very expressive. There are a multitude of pieces you could look at. The key is having a little bit of everything.

3. To my knowledge, I'm not allowed to advertise sites that offer free music scores on this forum... so... in order for me to give you that, you'd have to private message me, I think.

Hope all of this helps you, and again, welcome back!!!

[iroveashe]

Now, my questions about the sonata are:
1. Is it generally look down upon intermediate players who only learn the first movement of the sonata and give nary a wink to the second and third movements? I surely want to learn the last movement, and the second movement 'seems' easy, but I know both are out of my grasp compared to the relative ease of the first movement. And I know that when you learn a sonata, you're supposed to learn all the movements in them, but I think the only movement I can learn & play here without absolutely butchering it is the first movement. Just wondering about your opinions on this issue.

I did the same when I started. Looking back I'd recommend to go for something else, I'm not sure why that movement is so popular but there are lots of better sonatas by Beethoven.

2. What do you think the tempo of the first movement should be? I personally defy the alla breve notation and prefer to take the Adagio Sostenuto tempo marking very literally, playing it slow and drawn out, because I think it accentuates the melancholic feeling of the piece very nicely. However, I want to know if you guys think I'm doin' it wrong, or if the 'it's your own interpretation' excuse will work here.

I agree with Schiff on the tempo, I'm not sure if the 'fast' tempo is the correct or not, but it's what I play, I can feel the harmonies better that way.

3. Finally, my teacher said that recitals will be during the last week of either October or November. I am confident I can get my technical ability up by then, and I want to make the Moonlight Sonata First Movement my recital piece. I am wondering if this is a good idea? Would a returning intermediate player be able to express all of the feeling of this piece during a recital? Or should I choose something else as a recital piece?

Depends on the audience. Family/friends/casual people will probably enjoy it. If it's a more knowledgeable audience then I believe you should really have something new to say about a piece that is so played.

1. Would it be advisable to skip on this piece for now due to its immense popularity? I don't want to be 'yet another person who can play Fur Elise, yet poorly.'

It's pretty easy and I think it's better to be 'yet another person who can play Für Elise, yet poorly' than 'dude, you're a pianist and you don't know Für Elise?'

2. If I were to learn it, how hard are the other 'sections' after the first one like? I'd imagine they'd be harder in comparison to the part with the arpeggios, but how much harder?

Not much harder, but if you were to learn it, don't play the 1st theme again(or "part with the arpeggios"), start with the second of the 2 different sections (the one with the repeated A bass note), keep practicing it until you have it, then move on to the first "other section" and do the same leaving the easier parts for the end.

Finally, other questions:
1. Could you recommend any good books for an intermediate returning player? Right now, I have Piano Pieces for Children, The Virtuoso Pianist in 60 Exercises, Developing Artist Piano Literature Book 3 by Faber, and some Scales & Arpeggios exercise book which I forget the name of.

Haven't read any piano books except this one.

2. What are some nice pieces for an intermediate student to practice? Keyword here being 'nice', obviously you'll get really bored if you practice really boring pieces, so I'm mainly looking for pieces with some emotion in them, similar to the Moonlight Sonata.

I'd recommend Bach but I don't know what you'd consider boring and nice, and I don't have much repertoire knowledge anyway. You could take a look here

3. And are there any good sites with free downloadable sheet music? I know, sure I could simply pay the minuscule 5 dollars a month here, but being a jobless and credit-card-less 16 year old doesn't help my case.

Google IMSLP.

[herma48852]

I too would consider myself intermediate and have gone through the same questioning as yourself. In my case I am self taught however I did study classical guitar for several years and was pleasantly surprised there was some non-trivial carry over.

I worked through all three movements of Fur Elise and was very glad I did. However I play the 2nd movement at a much slower tempo than any recording I've ever heard as I relish the melody. The third movement was a real challenge but well worth learning how the ascending arpeggios and descending chromatic hanon-like passage.

As for the the other Moonlight, the other movements are completely out of my level and so what. The 1st movement is one of the greatest pieces ever composed .. nuff said.

As other posters have recommended, Schummann's Scenes from a Childhoods's "Of Foreign Lands and Places" and "Tramurei" are both accessible and again are very beautiful.

The suggestion of the easier Chopin preludes is one I have also attempted but frankly the touch required to make even the "easier" ones sound correct is beyond me.

In any event, play .. play .. play .. and be heard as well!!

[kookaburra]

if you want FREE sheet music...:

there are some good sites to check out, of course they all have pros and cons... most of these are like pianostreet - you can get some free, and more if you sign up.

free-scores.com
freesheetmusic.net
sheetmusicarchive.net
looksheetmusic.com
8notes.com
musicaviva.com
freemusiclibrary.org

 

Yes, its hard when you're young and dont have money... but I finally signed up on here, so I'm on a download marathon to make good use of my membership.


best of luck!

[rmbarbosa]

Why dont you try 3º moonlight mov? If you wish, read Chuan Chang (Fundamentals of piano practice) you may free download (www.pianopractice.org/). There, you have also fur Elise. It`s another way, a very very good way of learning piano practice, I think.
Best wishes

[sujit]

There is one website which I use alot:

https://www.gmajormusictheory.org/Freebies/freebies.html

and sometimes this one:

https://www.mutopiaproject.org/

I Hope It Helps!

[westlypiano]

Yup those are really great place to find piano resources! I found one here too:

https://bestwaytolearnpiano.org/piano-music.html

Good luck!

[keyofc]

nosrep,

That's great you've come back to the piano !

The 3rd movement of Moonlight Sonata - IS very difficult.
If getting down Fur Elise is a little challenging right now, although
doable, I'd stay away from the 3rd movement for now.

No reason to frustrate yourself as you get back into the piano.
3rd movement requires much higher technical skills than the first one does.

Many people play this movement alone. -
My advice is keep it as a later goal.

It's not that the rest do not have technical challenges - 3rd movement
has much higher challenges....