Further Evidence of Pogorelich's Decline

[minor9th]

Oh dear god...a 16-minute Mephisto Waltz??? (I was once a huge fan...I may need to alter that opinion now.)

&feature=related   (part one...it requires two...)

[iumonito]

The fact that it takes 16 minutes is just Ivo Pogorelich being himself.  Op. 111 at 31 minutes and Rachmaninoff 2 at 45 are typical of his expansive musical thinking.

What I find more telling is that he played this without his more typical very very clean standards, but maybe he was having a day (or more likely he has become unpreocupied with such trifling thing as playing cleanly).

Listening to Pogorelich has always been challenging for me, but I find his readings always interesting, honestly felt, and beautiful.  This one is no exception.

Thanks for posting!

[cherub_rocker1979]

The fact that it takes 16 minutes is just Ivo Pogorelich being himself.  Op. 111 at 31 minutes and Rachmaninoff 2 at 45 are typical of his expansive musical thinking.

What I find more telling is that he played this without his more typical very very clean standards, but maybe he was having a day (or more likely he has become unpreocupied with such trifling thing as playing cleanly).

Listening to Pogorelich has always been challenging for me, but I find his readings always interesting, honestly felt, and beautiful.  This one is no exception.

Thanks for posting!

His Op. 111 takes more like 45 minutes, not 31.  I still admire his playing and know that he's been through a lot these last few years.

[iumonito]

May it has gotten slower since the time of the one I have.

https://www.nytimes.com/1986/07/06/arts/do-today-s-pianists-have-the-romantic-touch.html

[minor9th]

The last time I saw him, Op. 111 lasted about 35 minutes. He ran a Rachmaninoff and Scriabin piece together and played both so slowly that it was hard to distinguish them. His concluding set of Liszt Transcendental Etudes were played at normal tempos, albeit with bizarre accents and rhythmic distortions, and his encore of Islamey was played at a normal tempo--not as blisteringly fast as he played it about 15 years prior, but fast enough. I don't mind "different" takes on pieces in the interest of artistic expression, such as he successfully used to do, but these glacial tempos of late are just not convincing. Let's face it--The Mephisto Waltz is not Bach's Art of the Fugue or a late Beethoven sonata! Strip away the virtuosity, and there isn't much left. Thank god he didn't play a 16 minute Islamey...

[thierry13]

Maybe he was actually sightreading the piece in public?

[birba]

I have never been a fan of his.  His eccentricity always appeared and sounded unnatural and forced.  But this youtube offering is even worse than usual. Pathetic.

[giannalinda]

I dont like him either...

[cherub_rocker1979]

One of my favorite videos of him.

[birba]

You're right.  When he wasn't playing the rock star, he could cut it.

[cherub_rocker1979]

Others may disagree with me, but I always thought he was such a beautiful person.

[c4rem]

seriously he played well...that is only true if u understood...either 'instinctively'...or with a knowledge of harmony

[minor9th]

I agree--he was a genius at one time (until about 5-7 years ago). I'm not sure what to make of him now.

[m]

Oh dear god...a 16-minute Mephisto Waltz???

Correct. The problem is everybody else instead of Waltz play Galop at the best, which (as the title of the piece states) somehow seems wrong...

Best, M

[neardn]

i listened

what exactly is wrong? i thought it was a good performance

[minor9th]

i listened

what exactly is wrong? i thought it was a good performance

It's about 40% slower than any other performance, for starters...

[neardn]

It's about 40% slower than any other performance, for starters...

so it's not that he's "declining"
people are only used to different interpretations

[c4rem]

so what if its slow? do u even understand why he played it at that speed? don't even dare to judge when u apparently hv not deep enough understanding.

[mousekowski]

Its when he starts doing pub gigs for £20, that you can say that he is 'in decline'!

[c4rem]

what do u mean by 'decline' then?


and btw, even if he lowers himself into doing pub gigs for $20, so what?

u think its that easy to gig?...and at that..gig WELL?

mozart, haydn, beethoven, all the great musical geniuses, improvised and gigged as well. r u saying they r in decline?..yes mayb financially they r ..but musically...its a big NO. there is no such thing as CLASS in music for god's sake. it doesn mean u play classical music ur better. it doesn mean u play jazz or pop or rock ur not as good. we r all serving one big tree aka, MUSIC.

[minor9th]

so what if its slow? do u even understand why he played it at that speed? don't even dare to judge when u apparently hv not deep enough understanding.

What are you, 12 years old and sending me a text message?

He has a penchant for glacial tempos these days, which has caused many people to question his ability to play at all and/or his state of mind. Can he no longer play these pieces at normal tempos (and from memory), or is it a conscious choice to be perversely different? Either is a sad situation. If you can illuminate us, oh great one, please do.

He's still one of my favorite artists when I confine myself to his recordings and concerts from 10-20 years ago.

[c4rem]

r ur comments refering to the mephisto waltz or the other video?...

well musically speaking the piece definitely isn't well done. but then in the first place, r U able to play like that?why do u have to focus so much on what is wrong instead of listening to more the good points of his playing?

n of course, whether the video is really pogorelich or not, is still a debatable question.

basically i m not even talking abt the artiste...what i m talking abt is simply just the music.

if u were to hear the mephisto waltz u would realise, yes interpretation it totally isn't even good at all. but listen carefully, the structure is there. the harmonies r there. all that is lacking, is the FIRE, or rather...the essence, emotiions, color, flow....(so many ways to call that FIRE)

anyway, its not even important if it is pogorelich. if it is, perhaps he is just trying something (at the expense of the audience of course)...

if it isn't (which i highly think so), it is still not that bad in the viewpoint of an amatuer.

basically, why dont u try stop being so critical abt other pple's playing? LOOK AT URSELF, can u even play like the video?

don't take it personally. its just my word of advice.

[minor9th]

r ur comments refering to the mephisto waltz or the other video?...

If YOU ARE (it's not really that hard to type...) referring to me, my comments refer to the Mephisto Waltz. I'm hardly the only critical person on this forum!

[birba]

basically, why dont u try stop being so critical abt other pple's playing? LOOK AT URSELF, can u even play like the video?

don't take it personally. its just my word of advice.
[/quote]I don't think one has to be a virtuoso to criticize another pianist's playing.  Don't YOU take it so personally. You'd think minor ninth was criticizing you!

[c4rem]

yes u dont have to be a virtuoso to criticise...a virtuoso is not even a good word in my POV..

but u have to at least have trained ears...in the first place, its not even abt becoming a virtuoso.

the virtuoso part would come naturally if u knew how to use ur ears in ur own instinctivee ways

well in that sense, mayb i have to remodify my ans..u HAVE to be a virtuoso before u can really understand another virtuoso. yes by all the means u can criticise but ur only doing nothing but showing how much u truly do understand.

what i m trying to say is. dont 'personal attack' pogorelich. the man has his reasons for being great. even if he declines, its none of our business.

unless ur telling me u starting this post is an act of 'care' for pogorelich? which obviously is not the intended intention

[minor9th]

I, and others, are deeply disturbed/saddened by his recent performances, and I was simply offering the latest example of his current obsession with ridiculously slow tempos. This post was in the spirit of concern, not criticism. I'm through responding to it.

[daniel patschan]

That interpretation - a decline Then go and listen forever to Brendel/Andsnes/Schiff, that´s the place to get everything well digested. I heard him play at the Met Museum two years ago. People left the audience but what most of them didn´t realize: somebody pushed the borders of classical piano music far beyond it´s so far known limits. And if you do not realize this, you are already declining. The fast parts of the Waltz are played at the same level as Horowitz did it in his prime. Ivo pogorelich is still one of the 5 superior pianists alive.

[cherub_rocker1979]

Correct. The problem is everybody else instead of Waltz play Galop at the best, which (as the title of the piece states) somehow seems wrong...

Best, M

Very true, Marik.  This is one piece that is often played too fast.

[cherub_rocker1979]

Pogorelich will always remain one of my favorite pianists.  Listen to this amazing performance.

[c4rem]

if u say so then minor9th

not realy a great fan of pogorelich but really he is great. not many pianist these days have such , insight into music seriously.

speaking abt not so many when we have....daniel barenboim, richter, radu lupu, rubinstein, hoffman, zimmerman, askenazy, perrahia, mikhal pletnav, martha, lang lang, pogorelich,kisin....the list goes on...

music is afterall, a source for al humans to extract from i guess..

lol