Download my compositions for free!

[andreasvanharen]

Hi!
I wrote some piano music and hope to get it around a little bit. Maybe here on the pianostreet, someone is interested in having a look?

Here is the link to the adagio of my second piano sonata:

https://www.box.net/shared/odasx4iq08

hope to hear some comments on it...

André

[pianoplayer002]

do you have a mp3 of it also? I played around with it and it sounds pretty nice to me, but it would be nice to hear a proper performance!

don't expect too many replies on here though

[andreasvanharen]

Yes, I already posted a mp3 before  but no reactions really. Here is the link:

https://www.box.net/shared/scfe5ju88s

Do you know a better place to post? I tr all over the net but I almost get no responses.

André

[pianoplayer002]

hey I recognize you from music-web and other places!

It's a pleasant piece, I like your harmonic progressions. You should continue try to get your compositions out, what I have seen from you before has been pretty great stuff. Try putting them up on YouTube.

It's a sad trend today that new composers doesn't get much attention. I do think we could do with more "traditional" music that stirs us emotionally rather than all the dissonant modernist stuff. Sure it might be great on an intellectual level but I'd rather listen to the kind of music you write. I actually think I have your "Laura Lee" sonata on my computer!

[gep]

I do think we could do with more "traditional" music that stirs us emotionally rather than all the dissonant modernist stuff.

This sounds almost the same as the man who offered money if only the racket would stop. He said so at the first public performance of the 3rd Symphony by, yes him, van Beethoven.
But of course you're utterly and totally free in forming your own tastes, likes and dislikes! But better not listen to things as Gesualdo, or Ockeghem, or the late van Beethoven....

It's a sad trend today that new composers doesn't get much attention.

So very true. And not just new composers, either. Wetz, Brun, Bunin, Feinberg, Atterberg, Huber,........

[Petter]

Gesualdo, didn't think anyone heard of him. Interesting career, murderer and composer.

[retrouvailles]

I remember you posting your compositions on here before, I think. Sure, this sounds nice, if one were to judge it from a standpoint that you're just creating this music for your own pleasure, and perhaps the pleasure of a few friends. However, no offense, but don't expect this to get wider attention than that. The idiom is one that is totally antiquated, so don't expect it to join the ranks of any modern composition today. There are no living composers in the spotlight today that compose in a entirely common practice idiom, as you do. This is because music simply wants to progress. Just look at history. Was there anyone during Scriabin's time composing in a way entirely like Mozart's? There might have been, but they were surely forgotten, except by their friends, who were probably pleased by their work. I'm just saying that your compositions are good, but for no more than personal use. If you want wider attention, like from academics and from a larger audience in general, you should start looking into more modern forms and compositional techniques. You don't have to reinvent the musical wheel, but some progression would be nice.

[andreasvanharen]

Thanks for the comments. I know that I write like I live 200 years back, even my wife tells me that if I ever even want to get a job on a music school to work with youngsters, I should write more modern music. The problem is that I don't feel having so much choice in this. I tried to write other kind of music but it gives me a terrible feeling while doing it because it's not me. I don't feel connected with it. And at least I should enjoy the writing process otherwise, what's the motivation of doing it? Maybe I will grow at some point towards other styles.

[pianoplayer002]

[...] If you want wider attention, like from academics and from a larger audience in general, you should start looking into more modern forms and compositional techniques. You don't have to reinvent the musical wheel, but some progression would be nice.

Why I personally think he should continue with his style is because it actually focus on the music sounding good and being beautiful. While it might sound a little cliche to your ears, I did a quick recording of a more "modern" piano piece.

[link removed]

Now, compare this to andreas piece. Which one would you prefer to listen to? Which one would an audience want to go and listen to? I think the answer is quite obvious. Andreas piece is pretty memorable, sounds good, and stirs an emotional reaction in the listener. Well mine does too, but the emotion is mostly EWW TURN OF THIS ****ING RACKET

Personally I think you should continue and make music that comes out of your heart rather than try to fit into "academic's" expectations

[andreasvanharen]

I know of some very famous modern Dutch composers whos music is almost never performed. I tried to get a score of an opera and heard that it was only performed once many years ago and wasn't available. This opera was written specially for some event and paid for. I doubt also a lot about the writing in atonal style. I believe there are more composers who write it than there are people who like to listen to it. Tonal music isn't dead, composers in my opinion just believe that they cannot write in it any longer before it's done before. if tonal music really is dead than why does popmusic still is written that way?

[pianoplayer002]

I totally agree, andreas. It seems to get so ridicolous some times with all the atonal and mathematical music
"oh so you've finished your new composition, how is it?"
"well if you take the number of tones in my composition and divide it with your age and then multiply that with the square root of the number of tones in the exposition plus your age in dog years you will get your credit card number"
"oh... well... does it sound any good?"
"what? oh I dunno I haven't listened to it, I wrote it in an entirely mathematical way based on my american express"

[gep]

I think that every composer (or creative artist for that matter, but we're talking music here) should work in whatever way feels natural to him/her. And most certainly not try and write in whatever -ism is in vogue right now. If your "natural voice" sounds like Xenakis, write like Xenakis. If your natural voice is in C, write in C. We need authentic music!
I'm very wary of any music that "must" adhere to a preset system (think serialsm. Why should you not be permitted to use e# again before you've used the other 11 (and no more than 11) semitones??). I think the reason that so much "modern" music sounds so very dry and uninteresting after the hype is over is because of the forced "originality", in which no music may sounds like anything else. Quite a bit of that sounds like nothing much indeed. Bach sounds always like Bach, and not because everything sounds the same, or because it resembles no other composer's work in any way.

By the way, tonality is no more than another system. Virtually no composer writing since it was institutionalised wrote purely tonal (Beethoven came perhaps close). So what is atonality? Writing notes that do not appear in a certain key? Count the number of sharps and flats in, say, Bach's WTC. Does that make it atonal? Or slightly atonal? And Bach did use numerological tricks in his music too, albeit not on the surface. But I do understand what you mean here, try read how Xenakis had for some of his "music" the preset formulae precalculated by a computer, then wrote it out the result in notes. Is that music??

In short, write as you are. If someone does not like it, so what?

What is that Dutch opera? Naima? Ithaca?

[retrouvailles]

I know of some very famous modern Dutch composers whos music is almost never performed. I tried to get a score of an opera and heard that it was only performed once many years ago and wasn't available. This opera was written specially for some event and paid for. I doubt also a lot about the writing in atonal style. I believe there are more composers who write it than there are people who like to listen to it. Tonal music isn't dead, composers in my opinion just believe that they cannot write in it any longer before it's done before. if tonal music really is dead than why does popmusic still is written that way?

I totally agree, andreas. It seems to get so ridicolous some times with all the atonal and mathematical music
"oh so you've finished your new composition, how is it?"
"well if you take the number of tones in my composition and divide it with your age and then multiply that with the square root of the number of tones in the exposition plus your age in dog years you will get your credit card number"
"oh... well... does it sound any good?"
"what? oh I dunno I haven't listened to it, I wrote it in an entirely mathematical way based on my american express"

Yes, there are some Dutch composers who are almost never performed, and there are others who are performed constantly. I know all about modern Dutch composers. Some write very tonal music that still looks to the future, and others write in a more esoteric, harder to understand idiom that is perhaps less tonal. Also, you say that you think tonal music is dying, but you are wrong. Tonal music was never in danger of dying. People have just started using what is called progressive tonality, and it has since become more complex (but still remained tonal) since the days of Mahler. I would recommend you take a look at some of these pieces so you understand that tonal music is NOT dying, and actually, a lot of composers today are writing very tonal music that is still "academic", is of high quality, gets performed, and is liked by audiences just as much as totally common practice music. You just know of "atonal mathematical music" the most because you haven't studied enough 20th century music history and only know of the most extreme examples of 20th century composers (meaning those of the avant garde). So, do some research and get your facts straight. Don't take this as a personal attack (for it isn't), but rather as just some helpful advice.

Also, I'm curious. Who was the Dutch composer and opera you were interested in?

[andreasvanharen]

I don't think tonal music is dying, that's what I hear so many times when people listen to my music: "Why are you writing like this, tonal music is dead!" So that's why I'm saying, I don't believe this is true at all.

Probably I'm too stuck in it to go further then what I did in my second piano sonata, like I said, I don't feel a connection with music when it goes to far.

The opera I tried to get many years ago when I was still studying music around 1988 or so, is called Aap verslaat knekelgeest, by Peter Schat. Maybe these days it's available, I don't know. I listened to it and studied the score because I tried to enter the non-tonal world. Peter Schat developed a tonal system called the ToonKlok. I loved the idea, still do actually, but I don't like what is written with it. Too much mind, not enough feeling in my opinion.

André

[gep]

I don't think tonal music is dying, that's what I hear so many times when people listen to my music: "Why are you writing like this, tonal music is dead!" So that's why I'm saying, I don't believe this is true at all.

Indeed it isn't! And why should it be, as one composer said: there is still much to be said in C major!
The symphony has been declared dead to once or twice now, so...

Probably I'm too stuck in it to go further then what I did in my second piano sonata, like I said, I don't feel a connection with music when it goes to far.

I surely do hope you're not "stuck" in anything when composing! And if (whatever level of) tonal is the way for you, you should follow it by all means! Surely you would want to write your music rather than anybody else's -ism!

The opera I tried to get many years ago when I was still studying music around 1988 or so, is called Aap verslaat knekelgeest, by Peter Schat. Maybe these days it's available, I don't know. I listened to it and studied the score because I tried to enter the non-tonal world. Peter Schat developed a tonal system called the ToonKlok. I loved the idea, still do actually, but I don't like what is written with it. Too much mind, not enough feeling in my opinion.

I have it as part of the "complete works" box I've got. I do not know whether the ToonKlok is to be considered "tonal", but as I understood from a composer (name slipped my mind right now), it is in fact a part (on 3-note chords) of a non-tonal chord-organising system developed by an American musicologist which describes all kind of chords (3note, 4note,etc). I must agree with you on that his music using this ToonKlok system does sound, to me at least, a bit contrived.

Gep

[scarabin]

 If it sounds good it is good, never mind tonal or not,
Those composers who made music out of creditcardnumbers in dogyears times their shoesize, ruined the reputation of classical music, thats why people in general dont care for this music anymore

[retrouvailles]

If it sounds good it is good, never mind tonal or not,
Those composers who made music out of creditcardnumbers in dogyears times their shoesize, ruined the reputation of classical music, thats why people in general dont care for this music anymore

These days, I'm sorry to say that you might make more money off music that is composed "out of credit card numbers in dog years times your shoesize" than something that sounds straight out of the common practice era, and nothing more. Even if it doesn't sound good, it might make more money. But who knows, some people have had crazy ideas, but have still written nice pieces that sound good, for it is the final result that matters, not necessarily the inspiration or ideas that went into it.

The opera I tried to get many years ago when I was still studying music around 1988 or so, is called Aap verslaat knekelgeest, by Peter Schat. Maybe these days it's available, I don't know. I listened to it and studied the score because I tried to enter the non-tonal world. Peter Schat developed a tonal system called the ToonKlok. I loved the idea, still do actually, but I don't like what is written with it. Too much mind, not enough feeling in my opinion.

I don't think you should have picked a composer like Peter Schat to "introduce you to the non-tonal world". You should have studied 20th century music compositional techniques starting with Schoenberg, Stravinsky, and Debussy. You can't start at the tail end of the century (I believe Peter Schat died very recently, and the opera is from 1988), for music has evolved much since then. After studying this music, then you could perhaps move on to other composers you like who are more recent, one of who might or might not be Peter Schat. You might like composers who compose in a more neo-Romantic idiom with some atonal techniques here and there like John Corigliano and Christopher Rouse more than you like Peter Schat. I think their music has a lot of feeling in it. So, do some research and you should find something you like. Hope this helps.

Also, Peter Schat's music isn't that difficult to find nowadays. You can try Donemus, which is probably the biggest publisher of Dutch music. I have gotten quite a bit of Louis Andriessen's music from them (I think he is better than Peter Schat, hehe).

[scarabin]

Yeah, but do you really think any musician started playing or composing music because they thought they would make a lot of money    classical music is nothing of that kind, its something you have to do if youre into it.
And like I said - Those composers who made music out of creditcardnumbers in dogyears times their shoesize, ruined the reputation of classical music, thats why people in general dont care for this music anymore

[retrouvailles]

Yeah, but do you really think any musician started playing or composing music because they thought they would make a lot of money    classical music is nothing of that kind, its something you have to do if youre into it.
And like I said - Those composers who made music out of creditcardnumbers in dogyears times their shoesize, ruined the reputation of classical music, thats why people in general dont care for this music anymore

I am actually against composers who compose just to sell out to their audience and make money, like John Adams. That, and composing entirely for yourself with nothing else are obviously the two extremes. There needs to be a sort of meeting ground, however, where the composer respects his own tastes and feelings, but is also mindful of his audience. How a composer strikes this balance is up to him. There needs to be some sort of compromise though. Please, if I thought classical music was all about making money, I would be a huge Lang Lang fan, and I detest the bastard.

Now, enough of this petty arguing. Lets go back to the topic that the original poster posed to us.

[weissenberg2]

like John Adams.

the minimalist John Adams or the post-minimalist John Adams?

[retrouvailles]

the minimalist John Adams or the post-minimalist John Adams?

I don't know what the distinction is between the two, really. Both John Luther Adams and John Collidge Adams (the popular one I am referring to) have composed in idioms that can be considered "minimalist" and "post-minimalist", however one defines that. Anyways, I'm sure you knew who I was talking about and just wanted to split hairs, it seems. John Coolidge Adams is exponentially more popular than John Luther Adams.

[weissenberg2]

I don't know what the distinction is between the two, really. Both John Luther Adams and John Collidge Adams (the popular one I am referring to) have composed in idioms that can be considered "minimalist" and "post-minimalist", however one defines that. Anyways, I'm sure you knew who I was talking about and just wanted to split hairs, it seems. John Coolidge Adams is exponentially more popular than John Luther Adams.

I actaully did not know which one you were talking about. Today was the first time I had done any research on him and I found two who were composers.

Is he any good? 

[retrouvailles]

I actaully did not know which one you were talking about. Today was the first time I had done any research on him and I found two who were composers.

Is he any good?

I am very, very surprised that you hadn't heard of John Adams. He is perhaps the most performed living composer today. His works get a lot of press, and he is somewhat the poster boy for modern American classical music. Some people, perhaps including me, would argue that that is something he doesn't deserve. Some of his pieces are amusing or good, but he doesn't match the quality of many other living composers out there.

[andreasvanharen]

Now, enough of this petty arguing. Lets go back to the topic that the original poster posed to us.

I agree! "Download my compositions for free!"

[gep]

Well, I have downloaded quite a number of your compositions for free (mucho thankyou for making the available!). I'd like to advice other Forum members to do the same!
I haven't listened to everything yet, or enough to make a comment, but for a few things I think I dare share my feelings.

A Classical Sonata in D
I am sorry, but this piece does nothing for me. You have "succeeded" in emulating the (if there is a "the"!) classical style so much it looses all personality, making it sterile to my ears. You might want to reconsider keeping it in your "official" catalogue.

So much for the bad news...

Mood Swings
Character pieces. Quite nice to hear, well written, but I wouldn't mind if they were a bit more extrovert or spicy, so to say. Especially the 3rd piece ("So Restless"), the opening and closing sections are quite up to the title, but I don't understand why the (rather long) slow bit in relation to the title.

Sonata no. 1
Now this is a very interesting piece! Already the 1st movement has quite a bit of energy going on. Really pricks your ears up! The 2nd movement is a moment of more rest (if not really quiet). The 3rd movement is hugely exciting! A real little "Scena"! The alternations of the fast A section with slower B section are very well written, each time different (while on the same material), giving each reccurence a different colour, until the last A section really shoots into the air. I had it playing through my head the rest of the day! It's also the longest movement (almost 9 minutes, as compared to the c5 minutes for the other three movements). The last movement seems at first to be a bit of an anti-climax after that, but after some more hearings I've come to the conclusion it fits very well, since it releases the energy build up in the 3rd movement.
In short, excellent piece, very happy to have it! By the way, you're an excellent pianist too, far to good for washing dishes....!!

I've heard some bits and pieces of other works, but need to listen some more if I'm to write about those. If you're interested to read them, that is!

You said you knew you wrote like 200 years ago. I don't agree. Sure, it sounds Beethovenish or Schubertish at places, but you don't try to copy them (the exeption here being A Classical Sonata then, see above). You write your music, but taking the "classics" as a kind of starting point. Especially in Sonata no. 1, the result is quite succesful. This piece could really be a succes with an audience. Barring those who feel that anything less than, say, Ferneyhough is below them...

I'd say: keep on writing as you do! It's your music, after all!

All best,
Gep

[andreasvanharen]

Hi Gep,
thanks for your comments on my music, I very much appreciate that!
Moodswings and the classical sonata are written many years before the first piano sonata. In those days I just started to get grp on musical form and developing the material. I didn't write pure piano music for a long time until my wife thought about 2 years ago that it would be a nice present for our daughter to dedicate a sonata to her. After that, my parents 50th aniversary came up so I wrote the second sonata. By that time I enjoyed writing for piano so much that I wrote the "Moments" for piano wwhich I arranged after that for different instruments as well.

I rather would do something else then working a s a dishwasher, very very bad for my hands, it make playing the piano very hard these days. But bills have to be payed and jobs are hard to find.

I would love to read what you think about the rest of my music, good or bad!

best wishes,
André

[gep]

OK, I will in due time!

If you haven't yet, you might want to look at the website of John Carey (who is or was also a member of this Forum) (www.johncareycomposer.com), he writes music too and provides some MP3's of (synthetic) performances of some of his music, Judging from your style you might like his, and he yours.

Perhaps an idea to put up a link here to that 3rd movement of your Sonata no. 1, I think quite a few people would like that music once they hear it!

All best,
Gep

[jhallam1]

I like it.  I downloaded the sheet music and tried it over on my piano.  As far as tonal music is concerned, it is making a comeback, according to Dr. David DiChiera, who decided on that basis to go ahead and produce his opera Cyrano de Bergerac.  If you get a chance to hear it, it's really great.  Sumptuous music, and very tonal.  The music of John Williams is also tonal, modern, in a similar genre to that of Miklos Rozsa. 

[andreasvanharen]

If you haven't yet, you might want to look at the website of John Carey (who is or was also a member of this Forum) (www.johncareycomposer.com), he writes music too and provides some MP3's of (synthetic) performances of some of his music, Judging from your style you might like his, and he yours.

I did, thanks for the link. I like his style of the pieces I hear. I wrote him an email as well, asking him about the way he recording his music.

Perhaps an idea to put up a link here to that 3rd movement of your Sonata no. 1, I think quite a few people would like that music once they hear it!

I would love to, here it is:
3rd movement of Sonata no. 1:
https://www.box.net/shared/clpq2vmo0s

I will make a new post though for this sonata, it's easier to spot that way.

André

[retrouvailles]

The music of John Williams is also tonal, modern, in a similar genre to that of Miklos Rozsa.

The reason is that they are both film composers, which are in a totally different category and situation from concert music composers. They continue to compose in idioms that are traditional and purely common practice because they don't have the same pressures and agendas as composers who compose purely concert music. I have met some film composers and have worked with some, so I know this for a fact. And by the way, Rózsa was also a concert music composer on occasion, and some of his concert music, like his piano concerto, used modern compositional and atonal techniques, while still staying tonal overall, which is what many composers do today (not all modern composers compose atonal music, contrary to popular belief). I have a problem with tonal composers who don't seem to move forward compositionally, whereas tonal composers like Rózsa did. I also don't like when people say that "tonal music is making a comeback" because it never became "out of fashion", which would have to happen for it to make a comeback. People have continually composed tonal music thoroughout all of the 20th century. It just hasn't all sounded like it was purely from the 19th century.

[lelle]

I have a problem with tonal composers who don't seem to move forward compositionally, whereas tonal composers like Rózsa did.

I have a problem with any composer who writes boring music that is a chore to listen to simply because it is too uninteresting/tries too hard to be interesting. Anything with a good hook/that is decently memorable and moving I'll happily listen to!

[retrouvailles]

I have a problem with any composer who writes boring music that is a chore to listen to simply because it is too uninteresting/tries too hard to be interesting. Anything with a good hook/that is decently memorable and moving I'll happily listen to!

You seem to be implying that composers today who write progressively tonal music are boring. Well, they aren't. Just take a look at some of the composers I have mentioned before and you'll be proven wrong. Also, remember that my posts are not necessarily attacking the original poster's music, but rather talking about composers in a broader spectrum who compose more for money (i.e. professionally), not composers who do it for fun like the original poster. I am just correcting poor misconceptions, which seem to run rampant on this forum. If the original poster has music that sounds good, then good for him.

[gep]

I would love to read what you think about the rest of my music, good or bad!

best wishes,
André

Well, I've listened to your symphony a couple of times now. It sounds like a very happy music, easily appealing, very bright. For my taste it's content is a bit (s)light, but then among my favorite symphonist are people like Bruckner, Mahler, Shostakovitch, Pettersson; well, you'll get the idea! Anyway, that's my taste, says nothing about your music!
The first two movements sound like they might have come from (or are part of) something like one of the better musicals ("Brakebank Mountaineer, a Middsummer Nightmare; or, Romeo and Julius" ). The 1st movement might be the Overture, the slow movement something like a romantic duet (now a romantic duet of Romeo and Julius on Broadway, thát would something...!).
The 3rd and last movements sound here and there (especially in the 4th) a bit like those very folkloristic street organs we have in The Netherlands, like this one
 
May be a trick of how the virtual orchestra sounds, but I think you intended it to sounds like this? It makes for a very happy, "folksy" finale.

Am I right in assuming the parts are technically not too difficult? For I could easily imagine this piece to be a showstopper for one of the various music-school or amateur symphony orchestras we've got here. You might try get their attention on this piece!

I've heard your Trauerlieder af few times, but wish to hear them more before commenting on those. These sound rather different (no suprise, of course!). If you would want my comments, that is!

Keep on writing, and hopefully you find something more suitable than washing dishes. Bill is a greedy monster, of course...

All best,
Gep

[andreasvanharen]

Hi, thanks for listening so many times to my music! That's nice to hear. The symphony is I believe perfect for amateur orchestras, it's not a very difficult piece to play. And funny that you say it sounds like a draaiorgel... my wife thinks as well that the last part sounds like circus music! I know the street organs very well, being from Holland myself.

André