Is it better to use sostenuto pedal or damper pedal?

[winterwind888]

Since I broke the damper pedal at the piano I tried the other two pedals which I did not use. The first pedal soft pedal, makes the tones soft or piano or even pianississimo. Then I discovered that the sostenuto pedal sustains a note after it is being held down.

I personally like the sostenuto pedal since it acquires the perfection of the duration of notes. I've been playing waltz c# minor lately and I use the sostenuto pedal for the first beat.

I also have seen pianists who makes use of damper pedal and it really sounds very blurry. Because they all sustain the notes that every fingers pressed unlike the sostenuto only a note being held down first then pedalled.

For you, which is better? And how can it be advantageous for me to use sostenuto pedal rather tahn damper pedal. I know each pedal is used for good musicality and I hope to get a technician to fix it.

[neardn]

one is not better than the other because they both have different uses.

i know the sostenuto pedal is essential in the diabelli variations, and is extremely helpful in complex contrapuntal music

beethoven writes "una corda" (which means to use the soft pedal) frequently in his late works, and many romanticism composers use it also. generally, when a composer writes ppp, you use the soft pedal.

[m]

For you, which is better? And how can it be advantageous for me to use sostenuto pedal rather tahn damper pedal. I know each pedal is used for good musicality and I hope to get a technician to fix it.

This question is the same as to say: "You know I have a car and the gas pedal stopped working. For you, which is better? And how can it be advantageous for me to use the breaks pedal, rather than gas pedal? I know each of those is used for a good ride and I hope to get my mechanic to fix it."

Best, M

[m]

Double

[goldentone]

This question is the same as to say: "You know I have a car and the gas pedal stopped working. For you, which is better? And how can it be advantageous for me to use the breaks pedal, rather than gas pedal? I know each of those is used for a good ride and I hope to get my mechanic to fix it."

Best, M

 

[richard black]

know the sostenuto pedal is essential in the diabelli variations,

'Essential' might be overstating it, given it wasn't invented till about 50 years after Beethoven died, but useful certainly.

Surprising really how few composers ever specifically notated for the sostenuto. Samuel Barber did, quite often, I've recently realised. It's a very useful device.

[ahinton]

'Essential' might be overstating it, given it wasn't invented till about 50 years after Beethoven died, but useful certainly.

Surprising really how few composers ever specifically notated for the sostenuto. Samuel Barber did, quite often, I've recently realised. It's a very useful device.

It is indeed - and Ronald Stevenson has notated for it on a number of occasions (and his understanding of it is arguably as good as anyone's) - but then I think you already knew that! Sorabji specifically calls for it on occasion, Elliott Carter uses it (albeit rarely) in his piano sonata of 60+ years ago - and some living Scottish composer whose name currently escapes me has made considerable use of it, not least in his Scottish Ballad commissioned and premièred by the said Ronald Stevenson. I'm sure that quite a few other composers have notated for it...

What perhaps fewer composers have ever done is notate for the una corda pedal in passages marked f or upwards.

Best,

Alistair

[edwardweiss]

 Well of course Percy Grainger often indicates the use of the middle pedal in his compositions-perhaps this dated from the time he spent playing to and listening to Busoni in Berlin. Certainly Busoni himself-immense pianistic figure that he was and remains-believed that the 3 pedals had never been fully investigated, let alone deployed by most significant pianists. This has hardly changed, it seems to me. If one makes a study of all the recordings available of Busoni pupils it soon becomes apparent that they all play with great clarity and a vast range of colour and dynamic range.By turns far quieter and far louder than than today's virtuosi-and this is apparent within  the limitations of outdated recording techniques. Probably because Busoni had instilled into them the necessity of using all 3 pedals in a judicious manner ! Busoni seems to have had a way of teaching seldom seen today. He showed his flabbergasted pupils what could be achieved on the instrument, then more or less told them to go away and sort it out for themselves !

[omar_roy]

The use of the Una Corda pedal is very difficult to justify unless you have specific motives.  Yes, it does make the sound quieter, but it also changes the tone of the sound, and sometimes you may not want to do that.  It is better to develop a good pianissimo through finger technique and keep the same quality of sound rather than use the una corda as a crutch to create a pianissimo.

[berniano]

The use of the Una Corda pedal is very difficult to justify unless you have specific motives.  Yes, it does make the sound quieter, but it also changes the tone of the sound, and sometimes you may not want to do that.  It is better to develop a good pianissimo through finger technique and keep the same quality of sound rather than use the una corda as a crutch to create a pianissimo.

I agree completely. However, after secure technique is established and the pianist can control dynamic level using that technique, the una corda pedal may be used to produce a contrasting color change (as opposed to simply a dynamic level change). It's often best to use the una corda in instances when a musical idea is repeated, usually to provide an interesting contrast.

[ahinton]

Well of course Percy Grainger often indicates the use of the middle pedal in his compositions-perhaps this dated from the time he spent playing to and listening to Busoni in Berlin. Certainly Busoni himself-immense pianistic figure that he was and remains-believed that the 3 pedals had never been fully investigated, let alone deployed by most significant pianists. This has hardly changed, it seems to me. If one makes a study of all the recordings available of Busoni pupils it soon becomes apparent that they all play with great clarity and a vast range of colour and dynamic range.By turns far quieter and far louder than than today's virtuosi-and this is apparent within  the limitations of outdated recording techniques. Probably because Busoni had instilled into them the necessity of using all 3 pedals in a judicious manner ! Busoni seems to have had a way of teaching seldom seen today. He showed his flabbergasted pupils what could be achieved on the instrument, then more or less told them to go away and sort it out for themselves !

Absolutely correct in all particulars! Well said!

Best,

Alistair

[cloches_de_geneve]

The use of the Una Corda pedal is very difficult to justify unless you have specific motives.  Yes, it does make the sound quieter, but it also changes the tone of the sound, and sometimes you may not want to do that.  It is better to develop a good pianissimo through finger technique and keep the same quality of sound rather than use the una corda as a crutch to create a pianissimo.

This is music school catechism. Use of the soft pedal (una corda, which in today's pianos is due corde) is entirely to the discretion and intelligence of the performer whenever he/she believes its timbre or quietness is called for by the piece. It can be used a lot or minimally. It's pointless to warn against its effects or to be rigid about its use.

[omar_roy]

I was simply stating that too often, the "Due Corde" pedal, as you said more accurately, is used to create a quieter sound without regard to its changing of the timbre.

[mikey6]

What perhaps fewer composers have ever done is notate for the una corda pedal in passages marked f or upwards.

Best,

Alistair

Liszt marks the start of the Benediction mf cantabile with una corda, that's the closest I know of.  I'm sure it's been said but una coarda should be thought of as a colour rather than a device to help play soft (perhaps only in extreme circumstances).

[keyofc]

The sostenuto pedal does not always do the same thing on all pianos.

[richard black]

The sostenuto pedal does not always do the same thing on all pianos.

Assuming it's not broken or maladjusted (both quite common) it does the same on all pianos. If it does something else it's not a sostenuto pedal!

[ahinton]

Assuming it's not broken or maladjusted (both quite common) it does the same on all pianos. If it does something else it's not a sostenuto pedal!

That's not quite true, actually; my old Steinway C from 1896 has a mechanism that was probably the same as the original one but whose design has been modified by Steinways and others at least a couple of times since then; it does almost the same thing but not as effectively as on a more modern instrument.

Best,

Alistair