Furtwängler Symphonic Concerto by Barenboim

[gep]

Perhaps this is of interest to some: Wilhelm Furtwängler's Symphonic Concerto for piano and orchestra, played by Daniel Barenboim and the LA Philharmonic under Zubin Mehta.
This is a transfer from a privately pressed LP ("Penzance recordings"), so don't expect SACD quality (the LP was probably pressed from a recorded radio broadcast)

Movement 1 (Schwer):
https://www.megaupload.com/?d=FKRQTPA0

Movements 2 (Adagio) and 3 (Finale):
https://www.megaupload.com/?d=N0BJ68A9

Gep

[thalbergmad]

Thank you for this, i will give it a listen.

This has been on my concerto shopping list for some time, but i have never gotten around to acquiring recording/score since i heard from someone once that it was of considerable length and likely to offend my romantically attuned ears.

Thal

[gep]

It is the longest published piano concerto to my knowledge (at little over 1 hour). I don't know if you could call it romantic, it's rather too dark for that. Think the soundworld of Bruckner, but somewhat more gnarly.
Unfortunately there are no ideal recordings, there is one with Fisher, the Berlin Phil and Furtwängler himself, but that is not the ultimate version (F worked on it till 1954 or so), and the recording (of 1938) is far from ideal, 78's are not up the the big and dark sound. There's one on Marco Polo, but that is somewhat lacking in expression to my ear. This Barenboim one is better, but then the recording is far from ideal. One may hope B may come round to making a proper recording someday...

[argerichfan]

This has been on my concerto shopping list for some time, but i have never gotten around to acquiring recording/score since i heard from someone once that it was of considerable length and likely to offend my romantically attuned ears.

AMAZING!  I actually have a score to a piano concerto that Thal doesn't?   

As for the concerto itself, I'm reminded of what Alfred Brendel once said about Furtwangler: 'it is enough to know that Furtwangler composed.' 

[minor9th]

Here's another live recording (Gergely Boganyi, Klavier Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Berlin
Leitung: Marek Janowski)
 
https://rapidshare.com/files/228745285/CORRECTED_Janowski_-_Furtwaengler_PC.zip.001
https://rapidshare.com/files/228760834/CORRECTED_Janowski_-_Furtwaengler_PC.zip.002
https://rapidshare.com/files/228753518/CORRECTED_Janowski_-_Furtwaengler_PC.zip.003
https://rapidshare.com/files/228753408/CORRECTED_Janowski_-_Furtwaengler_PC.zip.004


I couldn't get the files to work on my Mac...better luck to you PC people!

[retrouvailles]

It is the longest published piano concerto to my knowledge (at little over 1 hour).

The Busoni has it beat, both in length and in quality, in my opinion. I thought the concerto didn't go anywhere in all of it's massive length, and I feel the same way about Furtwängler's symphonies. He should have just stuck to conducting. Then again, I am not much of a Bruckner fan.

[gep]

The Busoni has it beat in length

EEEEK, how could I have overlooked thát one!!?? Yep, I'm stupid.....

Here's another live recording (Gergely Boganyi, Klavier Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Berlin
Leitung: Marek Janowski)
 

Thanks for that one!

[gep]

Here's another live recording (Gergely Boganyi, Klavier Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Berlin
Leitung: Marek Janowski)
 
https://rapidshare.com/files/228745285/CORRECTED_Janowski_-_Furtwaengler_PC.zip.001
https://rapidshare.com/files/228760834/CORRECTED_Janowski_-_Furtwaengler_PC.zip.002
https://rapidshare.com/files/228753518/CORRECTED_Janowski_-_Furtwaengler_PC.zip.003
https://rapidshare.com/files/228753408/CORRECTED_Janowski_-_Furtwaengler_PC.zip.004


I couldn't get the files to work on my Mac...better luck to you PC people!

After downloading these files I couldn't open them, "damaged files".
Anyone have these OK?

[retrouvailles]

You need to join the files with HJSplit or with 7zip.

[argerichfan]

The Busoni has it beat, both in length and in quality, in my opinion.

Well that is certainly my opinion also, though I've always had a very profound love of the Busoni, so perhaps I'm biased.  Yet the percentage of folks here with experience with both the Busoni and Furtwängler may be rather low.  No value judgment meant, btw, just 'experience' as I mentioned.

I thought the concerto didn't go anywhere in all of it's massive length, and I feel the same way about Furtwängler's symphonies. He should have just stuck to conducting. Then again, I am not much of a Bruckner fan.

I've heard the Furtwängler 2nd Symphony several times, it is critically considered his best (make of that what you will), but it's really hard to get away from the very apparent fact that Furtwängler simply lacked the ability to control long spans of time.  Compare it to other expansive late romantic symphonies of, say,  Bruckner, Mahler or Elgar and what is missing from Furtwängler's technique becomes quite obvious.  

The ultimate master, IMHO, of controlling large spans of time is Wagner, and Furtwängler was -and still is- one of Wagner's greatest interpreters.   Furtwängler simply couldn't apply what he instinctively understood about Wagner to his own compositions.

Sorry that you don't care much for Bruckner.   I could comfortably just tell you that Bruckner is an aquired taste, but I'm not so sure about that.  It's not like coffee or some brands of beer.  No, like certain composers, I think you either respond to Bruckner or not.  A very good friend of mine -old enough to be my grandfather- is a lot more experienced and astute musician than I, but he's always hated Bruckner.

[retrouvailles]

Sorry that you don't care much for Bruckner.   I could comfortably just tell you that Bruckner is an aquired taste, but I'm not so sure about that.  It's not like coffee or some brands of beer.  No, like certain composers, I think you either respond to Bruckner or not.  A very good friend of mine -old enough to be my grandfather- is a lot more experienced and astute musician than I, but he's always hated Bruckner.

Well, I don't HATE Bruckner. I think I actually can't say whether or not I like him or not. I'm still giving him a chance. However, I have heard from some people that you either like Mahler or Bruckner, and not both. I love Mahler, and I'm trying to stomp that phrase in the ground. As of now, though, he still hasn't struck me in any sort of way Mahler has. I will keep listening though. Bruckner is just one of those composers I want to like.

[gep]

I've heard the Furtwängler 2nd Symphony several times, it is critically considered his best (make of that what you will), but it's really hard to get away from the very apparent fact that Furtwängler simply lacked the ability to control long spans of time.  Compare it to other expansive late romantic symphonies of, say,  Bruckner, Mahler or Elgar and what is missing from Furtwängler's technique becomes quite obvious. 

The (compounding) trouble may be that there are few ideal recordings of his music. The Marco Polo series is reasonably good (and gives the 3rd symphony in it's 4 movement whole), the Arte Nova slightly less so, even though is gives the music a bit more breath (and in case of the 3rd a gruesomely bad recorded sound). The 2nd under Furtwängler himself is, of course, the yardstick to this work, but the sonics are not ideal. The same under Barenboim combines good performance with good recording.
But I agree that with Furtwängler that what he wanted was not entirely matched with what he actually could do. That, with the fact that he sometimes worked decades on certain works (some 30 years on the 1st Symphony, perhaps even more on the Concerto and over 40 years or so for the Quintet), is what I think is the trouble with his music.

I have heard from some people that you either like Mahler or Bruckner, and not both

Those "some people" are wrong, trust me! Mahler liked Bruckner, altough I do not know if Bruckner would have liked (all) Mahler.

[ahinton]

AMAZING!  I actually have a score to a piano concerto that Thal doesn't?   

As for the concerto itself, I'm reminded of what Alfred Brendel once said about Furtwangler: 'it is enough to know that Furtwangler composed.' 

...to which someone familiar with Brendel's often stimulating, thought-provoking and engaging writings once retorted that "it is more than enough to know that Brendel played"...

Best,

Alistair

[gep]

It's a strange thing in our day that someone can be a performing artist (say pianist, or conductor) OR a creative artist (such as composer). In Ye Olde Dayse any composer could play/conduct, if only his own work, and most performers could compose. Of course, in various levels of succes. But Bach was an oustanding performer on many instruments and a conductor, and his own pieces aren't half bad! And think of Maydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Bruckner, Mahler. But it would seem that since recording came into play you are either the one or the other, but cannot be both.
I do think Furtwängler should get more attention as composer, but also I wouldn't mind hearing more of Klemperer or Schnabel, to name just two.

Gep

[gep]

After downloading these files I couldn't open them, "damaged files".
Anyone have these OK?

I'm giving up on this, frustrated. All I get is "damaged files", "unexpected end" and whatnot.

Drat!

[minor9th]

I'm giving up on this, frustrated. All I get is "damaged files", "unexpected end" and whatnot.Drat!

Yeah, I had to give up, too. I also tried them on a PC to no avail.

[leonidli]

It is the longest published piano concerto to my knowledge (at little over 1 hour). I don't know if you could call it romantic, it's rather too dark for that. Think the soundworld of Bruckner, but somewhat more gnarly.
Unfortunately there are no ideal recordings, there is one with Fisher, the Berlin Phil and Furtwängler himself, but that is not the ultimate version (F worked on it till 1954 or so), and the recording (of 1938) is far from ideal, 78's are not up the the big and dark sound. There's one on Marco Polo, but that is somewhat lacking in expression to my ear. This Barenboim one is better, but then the recording is far from ideal. One may hope B may come round to making a proper recording someday...

To my knowledge the longest piano concerto published is Busoni's - the Furtwangler one is actually a little bit shorter.
There is also the recording by David Lively on Naxos, the sound is fair and the performance satisfactory to me (but of course not the best - I reckon I have not found a one to be named the best).

--

I apparently overlooked some previous comments...

[argerichfan]

There is also the recording by David Lively on Naxos, the sound is fair and the performance satisfactory to me (but of course not the best - I reckon I have not found a one to be named the best).

I found it rather indifferent, though the sound didn't help.