The most difficult etude

[etudefan]

Personally, the most difficult etude is Chopin's Op 10 No. 2.

You need lightness of touch, incredible endurance, and fingers of steel.  

What do you consider are your most difficult etudes?

[donjuan]

What do you mean by "your" most difficult etudes?  Etudes we have actually sat down and played?  Etudes that exist that are the most difficult in our opinion?

[Mello]

I'm wondering about the scope of this question.  If you mean all etudes, then I wouldn't have a clue what the most difficult was, so I'll just assume Chopin etudes.

That Op 10 No. 2 is no cake walk, for sure, but I would still say the winter wind is more difficult in all three regards.

[liszmaninopin]

If we're talking Chopin etudes-I'd give it a 3 way tie between op. 10 #2, op. 25 #11, op. 25 #12.

That's not to say there aren't harder etudes out there, of course.  Rach's op. 39 #1 is difficult, far harder than any chopin etude in my opinion.  Debussy's etudes deserve far more attention than they get; and some of those can be very difficult.  Recently I've been playing through Bartok's etudes op. 18-extremely difficult.  And then, there's Ligeti...

[rhapsody]

Yup, the chopin op 25 #12 is like the most difficult etudes in that particular book. I wouldn't want to imagine how it is through godowsky's arrangement. The funny thing about that etude is remember watching this film: "Chopin: Desire for love" the film basically focus on his relationship with Sand,
anyway, chopin went to paris and try to publish his etudes, the publisher tried the #12 and mocked it by saying it nothing more than bunch of notes going up and down. He wanted something more "strauss-like" tune (I hate strauss... richard, johan, joseff, any strauss)


about difficult etudes, well... there's always liszt and godowsky to dig up that surpasses the word "difficult" and near to "immposible"

rhapsody

[nerd]

If we're talking Chopin etudes-I'd give it a 3 way tie between op. 10 #2, op. 25 #11, op. 25 #12.

That's not to say there aren't harder etudes out there, of course.  Rach's op. 39 #1 is difficult, far harder than any chopin etude in my opinion.

Hmm... I find 25/12 to be one of the easier etudes (I've actually performed it ) and I'm currently learning 10/2. For me, it seems that 25/8 and 25/10 are the most difficult ones.

39/1 is the only Rachmaninoff etude I've played so far... 33/6 (E flat minor) looks tough.

[willcowskitz]

What about Cziffra's Két Koncertetüd Zongorára (two concert etudes for piano).

Har.

[Goldberg]

Alkan's Op. 39 etude set sports plenty of contenders, but specifically there is op. 39 no. 8 and no. 10. Inhuman skills are required for those, as with most Chopin-Godowsky.

[JK]

This question can not possibly be answered! Whether an etude is found hard or not depends entirely on the induvidual, everyone develops differently and therefore everyone has a different technique and finds some aspects of technique easier to master than others. I didn't find Chopin op.25 no.12 hard but did find op.10no.4 and op.25no.11 very hard, partly due to my small hands! This shows how things such as hand span and finger length can affect the ability of one to master certain etudes.

[f0bul0us]

Chopin
Op. 10 No. 1
Op. 25 No. 6
Op. 10 No. 4

Liszt
Feux Follets
Mazeppa
Eroica

Moszkowski
Op. 72 No's 13-15

Prokofiev
Op. 2 No's 1-4

[thierry13]

JK , He asked was OUR most difficult etudes, wich is personnal to the individual   I've not tried so much etudes, but:

Liszt:
Feux follets seems to be the hardest.

Chopin:
10.2
10.12 ( but now i master it)
25.11

[JK]

JK , He asked was OUR most difficult etudes, wich is personnal to the individual  

Sorry, saw the title and that was it!!!!

[toomuchrice]

the most difficult etudes for many people should be the "thirds" etude in op. 25.........

[f0bul0us]

the most difficult etudes for many people should be the "thirds" etude in op. 25.........

Sorta kinda...even though I suggested it earlier. The easy way around this etude while still using the suggested 1-4, 2-5 fingering is to practice Dohnyani's technical exercises in thirds before and after each time you practice the etude. Within a week of practicing you find the real difficult of this etude is not trilling in thirds, but maintaining the same tempo during the ascending and descending scales throughout the piece.

[bachmaninov]

You guys forgot to mention the great Sciabin. Some of those Etude's are challenging...No. 12 comes to mind (the only one i can remember that the moment).

[Mello]

I tried to learn Scriabin's D# minor etude but never could quite get the hang of it...

I wouldn't say the thirds etude is that hard, though.  The "octaves" etude seems a lot worse.

[thracozaag]

Sorta kinda...even though I suggested it earlier. The easy way around this etude while still using the suggested 1-4, 2-5 fingering is to practice Dohnyani's technical exercises in thirds before and after each time you practice the etude. Within a week of practicing you find the real difficult of this etude is not trilling in thirds, but maintaining the same tempo during the ascending and descending scales throughout the piece.

 Nope, the difficulty in this etude is actually the left hand.  If you want a double note etude that is actually much worse than 25 #6 or Feux Follets, try Rachmaninoff's PRELUDE op. 23 #9....

koji

[thracozaag]

I tried to learn Scriabin's D# minor etude but never could quite get the hang of it...

I wouldn't say the thirds etude is that hard, though.  The "octaves" etude seems a lot worse.

 
 Try Op. 65 #1 (the etudes in ninths, heh).  Op. 42 #5, 6, and 8 are also VERY tough.  

koji

[Irock1ce]

Winterwind is incredibly hard.. i got through the first 2 pages and then it started taking up too much of my freaking time to play.... but jesus did that require some good fingers.

[pianiststrongbad]

I recently attempted liszt TE no. 8 in c min, the opening two pages kick my butt.  I can't get my chromatic runs going fast enough on page two.  -I listen to Cziffra and I go into depression every time  Scriabin in d# i didn't think was too bad.  But the Scriabin in c# op42 no5- i think- is a bear.  Has that inner voice in the right hand for part of it, i don't know how to play that without getting a cramped hand.  

[thracozaag]

I recently attempted liszt TE no. 8 in c min, the opening two pages kick my butt.  I can't get my chromatic runs going fast enough on page two.  -I listen to Cziffra and I go into depression every time  Scriabin in d# i didn't think was too bad.  But the Scriabin in c# op42 no5- i think- is a bear.  Has that inner voice in the right hand for part of it, i don't know how to play that without getting a cramped hand.  

 I know...it's kind of like Op. 10 #2 (Chopin) in reverse.  Very difficult.

koji

[Spatula]

Personally, the most difficult etude is Chopin's Op 10 No. 2.

You need lightness of touch, incredible endurance, and fingers of steel.  

What do you consider are your most difficult etudes?

I think op 10 n 4

[f0bul0us]

 
 Try Op. 65 #1 (the etudes in ninths, heh).  Op. 42 #5, 6, and 8 are also VERY tough.  

koji

Mmmmm, Op. 65 No. 1, definitely a career ender.

[littlechopin]

the most difficult etudes for many people should be the "thirds" etude in op. 25.........

Ditto!!

[SandyMC]

If i were asked about the hardest piece of etudes that i;ve ever played, no matter the composer is, i suggest trancedental etudes by liszt no 10 or 12..
yeah that's it

[DarkWind]

I wouldn't say Liszt's 12 would be that difficult. I think that Ligeti really needs a mention. Different key signatures in hands? Some unknown key signatures? Insane directions and tempo? Without even having the notes you are already confused.

[cziffra]

everyone except willcowskitz seems to have ignored the two cziffra etudes, especially the one on the strauss polka.  MY GODFATHER these pieces are ridiculous

[maxy]

In the "new" standart: Godowsky and Ligetti (previously mentioned by Dark Wind).  I am pretty sure other freaks did some wild Études, but these two are quite well known.

In a more traditional rep,  Chopin op 10 #2, op 25#6 are quite challenging.  Liszt Mazeppa and Feux-follets deserve a mention.  So does la Campanella.  Obviously, I assume "ligntning speed" tempos in all of the above.  Otherwise, Feux-follets and Campanella are not "that" bad, hard, but not insanely so!  

Never mentioned, the Mendelssohn studies are no cakewalk!  They don't really deserve a spot on a "hardest études" list, but people should check them out!  Challenging and cheezy!

[larse]

I'm probably not the etude-genious in this club
However, as a liszt-chopin fan like everyone else, I would say Op10no2 by Chopin is not at all difficult compared to other etudes

In example the 'thirds' etude. I don't know about everyone else, but this is something I really suck at, so that might be why...
Else would I say that op10no4 is more difficult than no2. But mind that Chopin in itself often is butter compared to Liszt(purely technically). Chopins technique-difficult pieces(Revolutionary, Winterwind) which also can be seen in the ballads,scherzos, walzes, etc, is usually based upon motorique skills which can easily be trained. Liszt is not that way. He always makes you cry for rehearsing something you did'nt need more than two bars on 11 pages...

Liszts 12 etudes trancendante is not easy loaf. Look at nr2. And then at Mazeppa, and Wilde Jagd. And Nr10. These pieces are not played by man. I believe they are written for those one step above on the food chain...

[DarkWind]

Also worth a mention are the 100 Transcendental Etudes that Sorabji wrote. Never seen them, but since it's Sorabji they should be difficult.

[f0bul0us]

Also worth a mention are the 100 Transcendental Etudes that Sorabji wrote. Never seen them, but since it's Sorabji they should be difficult.

Too bad we're talking about real music here, buddy. Maxy...La Campanella? :-/. Now, Saint-Saens' ...

[donjuan]

Liszts 12 etudes trancendante is not easy loaf. Look at nr2. And then at Mazeppa, and Wilde Jagd. And Nr10. These pieces are not played by man. I believe they are written for those one step above on the food chain...

roflao!!
haha...you mean people like Liszt would eat other people?
hehehe

[DarkWind]

Too bad we're talking about real music here, buddy.

YOU ARE TOO UNCIVILIZED FOR THE MUSIC!!!   *runs off ranting*

Honestly though, not all of his music is bad. Listen to his Fantasie Espagnole. It has some dissonance, but it sounds good. His music sounds much better in the hands of someone who understands it. Plus you can become technically incredible!

[f0bul0us]

YOU ARE TOO UNCIVILIZED FOR THE MUSIC!!!   *runs off ranting*

Honestly though, not all of his music is bad. Listen to his Fantasie Espagnole. It has some dissonance, but it sounds good. His music sounds much better in the hands of someone who understands it. Plus you can become technically incredible!

I'd rather learn 3 different transcriptions of Rach 3, then a 3 hour, 12 movement, shit fest.


Funny...when I swear, it doesn't get filtered. Lol!

[donjuan]

I'd rather learn 3 different transcriptions of Rach 3, then a 3 hour, 12 movement, shit fest.


Funny...when I swear, it doesn't get filtered. Lol!

I know what you are up to with the "shit" thing..

[DarkWind]

I'd rather learn 3 different transcriptions of Rach 3, then a 3 hour, 12 movement, shit fest.


Funny...when I swear, it doesn't get filtered. Lol!

I respect your opinion and I highly disagree with you, however I do not respect you calling anybody or their work a "sh*t fest." I don't think you would like it if I called your piano playing a "sh*t fest," would you? At least have some decency, and not resort to highly barbaric terms to describe works which someone has worked their minds out. I would be rather angry after composing 250 pages of a piece, and having someone who has accomplished nothing even remotely close of the sort, someone no one even cares for and can only dream to achieving such a feat to just come a long and put down that person's work. I prefer you have respect to others, thank you very much.

[larse]

roflao!!
haha...you mean people like Liszt would eat other people?
hehehe

I mean exactly that...I believe people like Liszt and  Arthur Rubinstein ate the rest of us for breakfast. Not literarly, but they've definately more than man. Demi-Gods or something

[liszmaninopin]

Actually, since I've been playing a fair amount of these pieces lately, I can state that IMO, the most difficult etudes I've attempted are, roughly in order for me (also, keep in mind, I don't play a number of these properly yet, but I have played through all of them a number of times and am learning most of them at some rate):

Ligeti Coloana Fara Sfarsit
Ligeti Desordre
Bartok op. 18 #1
Ligeti Touches bloquees
Rach op. 23 #9 (a prelude, I know; but harder than many etudes)
Ligeti Automne a Varsovie
Godowsky op. 25 #1 (second version)
Scriabin op. 42 #5

[mh88]

from above.....i don't think chopin's 25/10 is anywhere near the top of the most difficult etudes, the pattern is quite easy

as far as my feelings:

scriabin opus 8 #3.....played to tempo....meaning very fast
liszt transendental as mentioned
rach's op. 39 is no slouch either
chopin....one could argue 10/2 and 25/6

one final note....i truely believe that discussing the hardest etude is near impossible and most importantly...pointless, i think this is about the 3rd or 4th thread on this topic, etudes are studies to build technique and are all worthwhile to learn and perfect, the problem with ranking them in order of difficulty is that every pianist has different strengths and weaknesses...someone who can play through the chopin 10/1 with great ease may think that's a rather easy etude after the work to learn it has been done...where as someone else may think it to be inpossible because of the demanding patterns of the right hand and will simply give up after they conclude it to be inpossible....same with 25/11, or any etude for that matter...no matter what the composer...so lets not get to caught up in fighting over which is harder 

[liszmaninopin]

We're not really fighting over which is harder, just discussing.  Actually, the recurring presence of a number of particular etudes points to the fact that they must in fact be more difficult than some others-it's a matter of general agreement.

[BoliverAllmon]

ligeti and godowsky wrote some crazy stuff.

boliver

[stefano]

the question is not valid. there isnt one etude thats the most difficult. there are many that are difficult.  for instance rachmaninov op.39 no.6 is the most difficult of the op. 39 set.  for op.33 probably no. 5.  although im not that fond of that etude.  for Chopin  op.10 no. 1,2. the thirds etude and winter wind are the most difficult.  Many are leaving out Scriabin. Look at op. 42 no.5! it has more notes than a mozart concerto.  Alkan, Godowsky, Ligeti also are difficult, but they are hardly worth listening to in my opinion.  The Liszt etudes are more for sheer power and stamina where as the Chopin concentrate on a certain problem.  Altogether, one would benefit most from Chopin etudes. but i love several of the liszt etudes above else.  Also Rachmaninov etudes tableaux are beautiful works. 

[liszmaninopin]

Alkan, Godowsky, Ligeti also are difficult, but they are hardly worth listening to in my opinion.

How much of these composers have you actually listened to?

Alkan's music is often worthwhile.  I would especially recommend the etudes op. 39 #4 and 12 as excellent music.

Godowsky is hit or miss for me.  His Passacaglia is wonderful, and I enjoy a few of hit etudes-other etudes of his I don't like.  They are, however, very listenable.

Ligeti's etudes are fantastic.  True, they can be dissonant, but they really are tremendous music in my opinion (I love some of them even more than the Chopin etudes).  Which recordings have you heard?  Biret's doesn't do them justice, IMO.  Get Aimard's or Ullen's.

for instance rachmaninov op.39 no.6 is the most difficult of the op. 39 set.

Do you think so-I would think that, for me, #1 is the most difficult of op. 39.  That said, I agree with you, his etudes are beautiful works-boasting tremendous expressive power.  His op. 39 etudes are one of his very finest works for solo piano in my opinion.

[Spatula]

Are you talking about Rach's etude tableux?

[liszmaninopin]

Yes, I am

[Spatula]

This isnt an etude but I really like Khat's Toccata...sorry don't have opus #. 

[superstar]

Im playing Chopin's etudes right now ,   op.10 nr.2 , op.10 nr.11, op.25 nr4 , op.10 nr.4
and i think i can find them easy .. u just gotta get into them and try to understand's Chopin's point in these etudes.. really .. it's not a cake walk , but its not impossible to master them. (PS. im still a beginner ) .
anyway , each piece is difficult in it's own way , and u just can not assume ; this piece is more difficult than that one ..
anyhow , good luck with yur etudes !