Who are some Romantic composers you can't stand?

[weissenberg2]

To me, romanticism is about throwing away the chains of form and composing with reckless abandon, so i do not consider Brahms & Reger to be romantics, nor Reinecke, Volkmann, Gernsheim, Reuss, Stavenhagen etc.

Is there a German connection here, or have i had too much beer again.

Thal

actually Reinecke was Dutch 

[franz-liszt]

BARBER!!!! lol

[thalbergmad]

actually Reinecke was Dutch 

You sure about that?

[gep]

from: weissenberg2 on Today at 03:00:28 PM
actually Reinecke was Dutch 

You sure about that?

Nah; Dutch, Deutsch and Danes, all part of Amsterdam, right?

[burstroman]

Edvard Grieg:  Although he has a melodic or lyric gift, he doesn't develop his melodies, just repeats them.

[lontano]

One thing that all responses to this thread seem to miss (maybe just slightly) is the effect on the general popularity of 2 specific (Russian) romantic composers, that were both denigrated as poor and/or generally worthless composers by the musical faculty with whom I worked for 16 years. These 2 composers are Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff. While mentioned in the music history courses they were rarely given anything more than a nod.

The irony of this is the vast positive effect on the general audience of "young and/or first-timers" to the world of Classical music in general. So weather any single person, regardless of their opinion or position, both Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff must be regarded as highly influential composers who have, and continue to have a generally positive influence on the classical world. And these days keeping classical music alive and present in the musical world is more essential than ever!

Lontano

[webern78]

I loathe and detest just about everything that came from Schumann's pen. It bores me senseless and makes me feel suicidal.

It is an insult to romanticism to describe him as a romantic composer.

Thal

You obviously never listened to his lieder.

As for this thread, what i despise the most is all the empty and insipid virtuosi of the era. Thalberg, Pixis, Czerny, Herz, and all that lot. I've even hated Liszt for a while but he at least compensated his lack of inspiration with his originality.

[general disarray]

Plenty of those Hyperion Romantic Piano Concertos discs have also put me to sleep with startling ease (especially that supremely boring concerto by Arensky and numerous derivative-sounding Polish concertos by Scharwenka etc...).

You can't, certainly, be referring to Hough's performance of the Scharwenka Fourth Concerto, can you?  The piece has everything anyone could want in music:  unforgettable themes, brilliant writing for the keyboard and expert orchestration.  It's probably not in the repertoire because of its excessive technical demands.

[webern78]

It's probably not in the repertoire because of its excessive technical demands.

You mean there's no composition in the current repertory that is technically demanding?

[general disarray]

You mean there's no composition in the current repertory that is technically demanding?

 

[webern78]

If you don't want people to point out your logical fallacies then stop making logical fallacies.

[thalbergmad]

You obviously never listened to his lieder.

As for this thread, what i despise the most is all the empty and insipid virtuosi of the era. Thalberg, Pixis, Czerny, Herz, and all that lot. I've even hated Liszt for a while but he at least compensated his lack of inspiration with his originality.

1. I have
2. I wonder how much Czerny you have listened to.

[thalbergmad]

You can't, certainly, be referring to Hough's performance of the Scharwenka Fourth Concerto, can you? 

I expect he is. Too much syrup you see

Thal

[thalbergmad]

You mean there's no composition in the current repertory that is technically demanding?

I am sure there are many compositions which are technically far more demanding. The Finnissey this and the Xenakis that and the Sorabji Opus something or another.

However, I think general disarray was referring to pieces that you would notice the difference if half of the notes were not played.

Thal

[general disarray]

If you don't want people to point out your logical fallacies then stop making logical fallacies.

Point away, m'dear, point away! 

[pianisten1989]

Here we go again! Why all these hate-topics?! >.<
Ohwell:

Saint-Saëns: He had a beard, right? Beard sounds almost like beer, and I don't like beer, therefore I don't like saint-saëns
Rachmaninov: Because he's always like "Oh, look at me! I am the last romantic composer!!", and he says it in Russian! He always spam me on my facebook, about that. So annoying!
Chopin: Because he's all Emo.
Alkan: Why should I stand him?
Liszt: Can't really think of anything... But I bet his damn proud and cocky about it. So damn him!
Brahms: What's up with the H in the middle?!
Strauss: They are like 15 of them, And their all named Johan! Imagination people!
Grieg: He's from norway! There's a reason why Swedes make fun them! ... He's not the main reason, but he should have been!
Sibeluis: All finnish people sits in their saunas and and slap each other with twigs. What's not to hate?!

[tanman]

Saint-Saëns: He had a beard, right? Beard sounds almost like beer, and I don't like beer, therefore I don't like saint-saëns
Rachmaninov: Because he's always like "Oh, look at me! I am the last romantic composer!!", and he says it in Russian! He always spam me on my facebook, about that. So annoying!
Chopin: Because he's all Emo.
Alkan: Why should I stand him?
Liszt: Can't really think of anything... But I bet his damn proud and cocky about it. So damn him!
Brahms: What's up with the H in the middle?!
Strauss: They are like 15 of them, And their all named Johan! Imagination people!
Grieg: He's from norway! There's a reason why Swedes make fun them! ... He's not the main reason, but he should have been!
Sibeluis: All finnish people sits in their saunas and and slap each other with twigs. What's not to hate?!

no Schumann??   

[weissenberg2]

no Schumann??   

I will save him the trouble and say;

Schumann: his hand size, and he was German

[tanman]

Schumann because his name has two n's 

[weissenberg2]

Schumann because his name has two n's 

or that

[thalbergmad]

Sibeluis: All finnish people sits in their saunas and and slap each other with twigs.

I think there is more than a grain of truth in that.

Thal

[ahinton]

I think there is more than a grain of truth in that.

Leaving aside the fact that there's not much grain of any kind in Finland in any case, do you have irrefutable evidence from your own experiences to prove that rather bizarre assertion? (not that I've ever encountered a composer or indeed anyone else from Finland or anywhere else with the name Sibeluis)...

Best,

Alistair

[pianisten1989]

No, I hate schumann, because it sounds like Shu Man! Which evernyone said in ninth grade. And ninth grade sux!

[ahinton]

No, I hate schumann, because it sounds like Shu Man! Which evernyone said in ninth grade. And ninth grade sux!

Is this post supposed to mean anything? - because, if so, I'm sure that I'm not the only member here who fails to find any such meaning...

Best,

Alistair

[pianisten1989]

Is this post supposed to mean anything? - because, if so, I'm sure that I'm not the only member here who fails to find any such meaning...

Best,

Alistair

oh! I forgot to quote! It was meant to be a sequel to my post, and a answer to a guy who asked why Schumann wasn't one of the romantic composers i couldn't stand.

[argerichfan]

(not that I've ever encountered a composer or indeed anyone else from Finland or anywhere else with the name Sibeluis)...

I haven't either, though it seems to me that I encountered a composer named Sibelius once. 

[ahinton]

oh! I forgot to quote! It was meant to be a sequel to my post, and a answer to a guy who asked why Schumann wasn't one of the romantic composers i couldn't stand.

And the inclusion of the said quotation (which I note you still omit to provide) would of itself confer meaning on your post, would it?...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

I haven't either, though it seems to me that I encountered a composer named Sibelius once. 

Only ONCE?! Then you have much to which to look forward!

Best,

Alistair

[argerichfan]

Only ONCE?! Then you have much to which to look forward!

Will do, as soon as I work my way through the Rautavaara CDs which a friend of mine introduced me to.  Particularly love the piano concerto, of which, naturally, Thal has the score.

Just kidding about Sibelius.  Anyone with the remotest interest in this composer should compare the earlier version of the 5th symphony (it's on a BIS CD) with the revised version.  A nice lesson in the formation of a masterpiece.   

[communist]

Will do, as soon as I work my way through the Rautavaara CDs which a friend of mine introduced me to.  Particularly love the piano concerto, of which, naturally, Thal has the score.

Just kidding about Sibelius.  Anyone with the remotest interest in this composer should compare the earlier version of the 5th symphony (it's on a BIS CD) with the revised version.  A nice lesson in the formation of a masterpiece.   

Just wondering, but what Rautavaara CDs has your friend showed you?

[retrouvailles]

Will do, as soon as I work my way through the Rautavaara CDs which a friend of mine introduced me to.  Particularly love the piano concerto, of which, naturally, Thal has the score.

Just kidding about Sibelius.  Anyone with the remotest interest in this composer should compare the earlier version of the 5th symphony (it's on a BIS CD) with the revised version.  A nice lesson in the formation of a masterpiece.   

I also suggest Rautavaara's 2nd and 3rd concertos. Thal only has the first concerto, which is the one you heard.

[quirky]

Elgar -  Overly pompous english drivel that I have found is unfortunately.

Schumann -  Ridiculously annoying...

Chopin - Every single piano piece is essentially and intrinsically the same.

[lontano]

Neither did i, but Schubert did eventually pierce my heart, whilst all Schumann ever did was to pierce my ears.

Perhaps when i am 60 i will think differently, but at the moment i am no longer willing to force my ears to listen to his works. There is so much beauty to be had elsewhere.

Thal

While I learned to admire Schubert sooner than Schumann (still working on that), I have to admit I'm a die-hard fan of toccatas, and Schumann's Toccata, Op 7, is high on my list of favorite toccatas (or works in the style of a toccata). It's nasty hard (I wouldn't know where to begin ), but I've seen pre-teens performing it rather well, so that's maybe a reflection on my own inadequacies.

How about starting a topic devoted to Favorite Piano Toccatas! (It's not likely to be very long!).

L.

[indutrial]

Elgar -  Overly pompous english drivel that I have found is unfortunately.

Unfortunately what?

[zheer]

Elgar -  Overly pompous english drivel that I have found is unfortunately.

Schumann -  Ridiculously annoying...

Chopin - Every single piano piece is essentially and intrinsically the same.

 I'll add Franz Liszt to the list.

[tanman]

I'll add Franz Liszt to the list.

me too. 
or actually, I can only stand very few amounts of his works. 

[thalbergmad]

I also suggest Rautavaara's 2nd and 3rd concertos. Thal only has the first concerto, which is the one you heard.

I am slightly interested in this composer, so i have ordered 2nd & 3rd concertos.

Thal

[weissenberg2]

I have not been liking Schubert as of late.

I used to love his sonata D.784 but not it sounds like a pop song. Same goes for a lot of his music. My dislike for him is mainly because of his melodies, and a good deal of the time when he has a genuine melody it is stolen from a Beethoven piece. However, I think he is a master of harmonic modulation.

[thalbergmad]

My dislike for him is mainly because of his melodies

I would guess that is why a lot of people like him.

Personally, I prefer the melodies of Xenakis.

Thal

[retrouvailles]

I am slightly interested in this composer, so i have ordered 2nd & 3rd concertos.

Thal

You didn't have to order the 3rd concerto. I would have scanned it for you gladly.

[kay3087]

I love Einojuhani Rautavaara's first Piano Concerto. It makes me nostalgic for the Alpine Symphony, which I listened to often when I was younger.

I can't stand, or sit either, for much of Schumann's music, save the occasional lieder. And almost all of Chopin's music makes me feel uneasy after more than five minutes.

[thalbergmad]

Damned decent of you retro old chap, but i have an empty shelf for originals that i need to fill up.

I see that both Boosey & Fazer published the 2nd & 3rd Concertos and the prices are very reasonable. I opted for the latter as Fazer (via Gehrmans Musikforlag) have a distribution centre not far from where i live.

I take it there is no 4th i have to find?.

Thal

[weissenberg2]

I would guess that is why a lot of people like him.

Personally, I prefer the melodies of Xenakis.

Thal

Xenakis tends on being a-melodic. I think Keqrops is compelling, I also like Mists but I usually don't like his music.

[retrouvailles]

I take it there is no 4th i have to find?

Well, not at the moment, but Rautavaara is still alive and writing, so we may get another one in the future.

[point of grace]

I loathe and detest just about everything that came from Schumann's pen. It bores me senseless and makes me feel suicidal.

It is an insult to romanticism to describe him as a romantic composer.

Thal

so, how would you describe him?

[thalbergmad]

so, how would you describe him?

Teutonic Toilet Paper.

Thal

[ahinton]

Teutonic Toilet Paper.

Given, Schumann's influence upon Reger, might you imagine that the toilet paper to which you refer is that which Reger had in mind when, in his notorious response to a critic's negative review of a new quartet of his (Reger's own, not Schumann's, that is), he observed that he was sitting in the smallest room of his house, that he had the critic's review before him and that it would shortly be behind him?

Seriously, though, in the light of your frequently expressed contempt for Schumann, can you tell us in some detail what it is about Schumann's work that you feel so bad about and whether it actually applies to everything that he wrote (or at least everything of his that you've so far heard)?

Best,

Alistair

[slow_concert_pianist]

My goodness if you pick on the genii this way, how could the "lesser knowns" stand a chance?

None of the composers "criticised" in this thread have been heard performing their works by anyone living. So I propose 2 considerations, perhaps it is the incompetence of the performer or the ignorance of the critic which has allowed this thread to flourish.

I do grant that if Schumann's mouth had been rather smaller than his extraordinary talent he might not constantly be singled out but so many jealous and hateful musicians as being "inferior".

[thalbergmad]

My goodness if you pick on the genii this way, how could the "lesser knowns" stand a chance?

The "lesser knowns" often stand more of a chance for me.

Listen to the Rufinatsche piano concerto and then the Schumann and tell me what one pleases you the most. Compare the Schumann Concerto Allegro with the Volkmann Concertstuck. Try a symphony by Gernsheim and see how it compares to Schumann.

Thal

[slow_concert_pianist]

The "lesser knowns" often stand more of a chance for me.

Listen to the Rufinatsche piano concerto and then the Schumann and tell me what one pleases you the most. Compare the Schumann Concerto Allegro with the Volkmann Concertstuck. Try a symphony by Gernsheim and see how it compares to Schumann.

Thal

Which Schumann Piano Concerto, Clara or Robert's?