What's the deal with the B flat and F sharp???

[go12_3]

I have noticed everytime I begin to teach a student about the Key of G Major and the Key of F Major  that when the B note comes along, strike the black key.  I have said numerous times, throughout the lesson, "B flat!"  or "F sharp!" when the student strike the B natural and F natural.    And the student just don't get it, even after a few weeks.  Is this a common occurance amongst students?  I mean, they know their notes but they have a hard time to flat or sharp in simple key signatures. Are there any ideas on how to get a student to comprehend that the B is flat and the F is sharp? Or am I approaching this incorrectly?   

best wishes,

go12_3
 

[perfect_pitch]

I tell them that when you're feeling flat - you feel down... and that if you sit on something sharp then you yell really high... so go up...

High school kids love it.

[scottmcc]

at least for me, I have a tendency to miss sharps and flats in the "easy" key signatures (Bb, F, G, D) because there's so many white notes played.  I actually find the "hard" key signatures can be easier, since "everything" is a black note.

but missing sharps and flats is part of the learning process and just takes careful repetition and correction.  more work on scales will probably help of course.

[timothy42b]

Are there any ideas on how to get a student to comprehend that the B is flat and the F is sharp? Or am I approaching this incorrectly?   
 

Think about the process.  Play wrong note, teacher says play black key, student plays right note. 

The cue for the student playing the black key is the teacher pointing it out, rather than part of the playing process.  This is called stimulus chaining.  If you get out of your car and notice you've left the lights on, the cue for turning lights off becomes noticing they are on, and that's not what you want.  What you should do is get back in the car, start it again, and turn the lights off as part of the process.  That's how we become less absent minded.

I'll admit I sometimes fail to play the black key.  It's not because I don't know I have to, it's because my clumsy finger misses where I want it to go.  I certainly hear the error immediately, but now it's too late.  Telling me to play the black key really wouldn't do me any good at all.  It's just stating the obvious.

But for some students perhaps it is not obvious.  What would happen if you had them play the measure again, and ask if it sounded right? 

 

[go12_3]

Yes,  last Thursday, I did have a student that  recognized that she did strike the B natural and then quicky did strike the B flat.  She already has a good ear for music and therefore, she corrected that mistake.  After I told her *B flat* on half of the piece!   ha ha . 

I think this will be a process.  Perhaps I will try the going over the measure 7 times in order to get that B flat or F sharp imbedded in my students' minds.   

best wishes,

go12_3

[mcdiddy1]

You have to teach kids what right sounds like before they have a chance to make a mistake. Perform the melody before they play note so they can hear what it should be before they play. Once they have done that successfully then put a label on it and explain how this is in the key of G or F and how keys are related to each other. You may want to play the same melody in different keys so they can see how important it is to play in the right key and how they change. Too often we have them play the piece and expect that they know what it sounds like and to expect them to understand what they cannot possible know yet. Teaching them scales along sides with the key signature can help them learn it better

[soitainly]

 I wouldn't be too concerned if a student played wrong notes occasionally yet realized they made the mistake by hearing it. I would be very concerned if they don't even hear the notes in a scale being off. Maybe someone who has only played a few weeks would not yet know what a scale should sound like, but it seems to me that making an aural "picture" is fundemental to learning music. Either they are not concentrating on this when they practice or are not practicing at all. In a lesson they may be nervous and not realize their mistake, but somehow I would want to stress that they have to learn to recognize pitches, not just where to put their fingers. I may be out of line as I am not a teacher, but it sure seems like an essential skill to be able to hear when something is wrong.

[Bob]

Seinfeld says, "What's the deal with the B flat and F sharp???"


I think it's normal.  Maybe pointing out the scale the piece is in or the sound of those wrong notes.  An F natural esp might cause the piece to sound like it's changing key.

[go12_3]

Well, now that this subject got resurrected somehow.  I'll address it today.
I do play the melody for my students if they cannot hear how it should sound.
Then I play it without the sharp or flat, so that they can listen to the difference.
Plus, they need to understand why, and so I explain the difference and play that
measure; also, why that note becomes a sharp or a flat.  Then I play the scale
and tell my student what that scale is and why.  I am getting better at this
and therefore my students will comprehend the what and whys and hows the
piece should sound. 

Thanks for your input people!

best wishes,

go12_3

[theodore]

This funny incident happened many years ago.  At my third lesson my teacher brought in a hammer and a small nail.  I asked what they were for. He replied that I had a choice :

"Do you want me to nail your 3rd finger into that black F sharp before or after you start
playing ??"

I immediately was alerted to the importance of that black F sharp and smiled when I saw it coming.



 

[thierry13]

This funny incident happened many years ago.  At my third lesson my teacher brought in a hammer and a small nail.  I asked what they were for. He replied that I had a choice :

"Do you want me to nail your 3rd finger into that black F sharp before or after you start
playing ??"

I immediately was alerted to the importance of that black F sharp and smiled when I saw it coming.



 

Jesus Christ! What an interesting teacher!

(The reference to jesus christ is of course voluntary here)

[sashaco]

I have an eight year old son and several children I occasionally teach of around that age.  I find that I can quietly say, "Prepare the b flat ," while they're playing wthout disrupting their playing too much.  To me this seems a useful way to instill the sense  that ALL notes should be prepared whenever possible.  Many young learners play with their fingers up in the air, or off the keyboard altogether- by preparing the flats and sharps earlier they begin to keep all their fingers closer to the keys.

[bats_about_belfreys]

Hello go_ and respondents. This tip might help with the F-sharp. I ask my students to play a (C) major scale very slowly and tell me what, in their opinion, is the most beautiful note of them all. A simple exercise, shove the notes down in order, cock the head towards the piano, listen to each sound and make a judgment. In almost every single case of this bold (because easily disprovable) experiment, they say that the B, the seventh, is the most gorgeous, followed by the G (5th). Try it. The seventh becomes beautiful for being so very nearly there, on the verge of arrival, but just not quite. The same answers come when the scale is descending, oddly enough.
So the scale, with no Swan-Lake changes in rhythm, becomes a melody, with event and even expression. One of the best tunes ever written.
Transpose all to a G-maj and an f-natch just doesn't have the niceness.
Also perhaps ask the student at what moment they "remember" that there's a black note coming. If they remember only on the note before, they're not giving themselves time to push the finger forward/upward that little bit needed to lift it from the white plains. A scale should be remembered as an entity, not a string of notes with annoying problems as to colour.
Incidentally, Chopin taught the B-major scale first to all his beginner students, this being the easiest to "find" on the keyboard and "cup" with the fingers. He only graduated them to C-maj once they had become more competent!