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Topic: Piano Toccatas!  (Read 19486 times)

Offline retrouvailles

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Piano Toccatas!
on: July 13, 2009, 04:30:08 AM
This is inspired by lontano's post in another thread. Just name some toccatas for piano (or toccata-like works) that come to your mind. I would like to have a big, long list from all periods that I or someone else can reference (I love toccatas too, just like lontano). I'll just name three that came to my mind immediately, which I love:

Sergei Prokofiev - Toccata in D minor, Op. 11
York Bowen - Toccata in A minor, Op. 155
Louis Andriessen - Image de Moreau

Hopefully this thread will last longer than lontano feared it would!
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Offline go12_3

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #1 on: July 13, 2009, 04:31:43 AM
 I can only think the one I know how to play,
Debussy's Toccata

best wishes,

go12_3
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Offline retrouvailles

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #2 on: July 13, 2009, 04:35:54 AM
Quote from: go12_3 on July 13, 2009, 04:31:43 AM
I can only think the one I know how to play,
Debussy's Toccata

best wishes,

go12_3

Ah yes, the third mov't of  the Pour le Piano Suite. Yes, don't be afraid to mention movements from larger works!
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Offline makeanote

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #3 on: July 13, 2009, 05:40:42 AM
Don't forget:

Ravel's Toccata from Le Tombeau de Couperin
Khachaturian's Toccata from his piano suite.

Liszt wrote one, but I'm not sure of the reference for it.

Plus I think Bach wrote a few...  ;)

Ian
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Offline tanman

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #4 on: July 13, 2009, 07:44:02 AM
sorabji and schumann  :D
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Offline edwardweiss

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #5 on: July 13, 2009, 09:51:17 AM
Here are a few more. William Sterndale Bennett Op.38, E.J. Moeran, Arnold Bax, Klement Slavicky and Pierre Sancan. A friend of mine used to end recitals with the Sancan which he played quite brilliantly. The Slavicky is wonderful but an absolute pig to learn.
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Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #6 on: July 13, 2009, 09:54:06 AM
Quote from: makeanote on July 13, 2009, 05:40:42 AM
Don't forget:

Ravel's Toccata from Le Tombeau de Couperin


God - that is one that's hard to forget - and a right bloody bugger to play...

I'm just glad I didn't get RSI from playing it.
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #7 on: July 13, 2009, 09:58:50 AM
Quote from: tanman on July 13, 2009, 07:44:02 AM
sorabji and schumann  :D
Well, Schumann wrote just the one - a famous knuckle-buster; Sorabji, after having written a short one early in life (and a similarly brief Toccatinetta some 12 years later), went on to compose four, all multi-movement works that take the entire concept of the piano toccata to hitherto unexplored areas. Now - here's the challenge; no. 1 has been edited in typeset form by Richard Younger and performed and recorded by Jonathan Powell, no. 2 was premièred by the composer in 1936 and has not been performed since, although it now exists in a typeset edition by Alexander Abercrombie, no. 4 has neither been edited nor performed - but no. 3 was lost in the early 1960s, so - see if you can find its manuscript!

Best,

Alistair
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Offline gep

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #8 on: July 13, 2009, 10:55:10 AM
Quote
no. 2 was premièred by the composer in 1936 and has not been performed since, although it now exists in a typeset edition by Alexander Abercrombie
Perhaps Jonathan Powell could have ago at it after recording Sequentia Cyclica?

I hope!
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Offline go12_3

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #9 on: July 13, 2009, 12:05:04 PM
Quote from: retrouvailles on July 13, 2009, 04:35:54 AM
Ah yes, the third mov't of  the Pour le Piano Suite. Yes, don't be afraid to mention movements from larger works!
I'm only an amateur, so I am not aware of mentioning movements from larger works, by the way.  ;)

best wishes,

go12_3
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #10 on: July 13, 2009, 12:35:58 PM
Quote from: gep on July 13, 2009, 10:55:10 AM
Perhaps Jonathan Powell could have ago at it after recording Sequentia Cyclica?

I hope!
Well, I, too hope that he gives serious consideration to this, since it has existed in that typeset format for quite some time; likewise, I hope that he will devote his energies to preparing a performance of the Passacaglia that Sorabji left unfinished at the time he embarked on OC and which has not only been typeset/edited by Mr Abercrombie but completed by him as well. That said, I imagine that, by the time that Mr Powell has recorded Sequentia Cyclica, the new typeset and corrected edition of OC will have been completed and I daresay that he'll then want to record that - something for which many of us (except Thal) have been waiting eagerly for far too long already!

Best,

Alistair
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Offline communist

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #11 on: July 13, 2009, 01:02:09 PM
Henryk Pachulski op.9  ;)
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Offline sharon_f

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #12 on: July 13, 2009, 01:23:20 PM
I believe there was a thread about Toccatas just a month or so ago. Anyway, to add a few more:

Czerny (Some believe this was the model for Schumann's.)
St. Saens
Khatchaturian
Menotti
Muczynski
Paradies
Cuellar
Poulenc
Massenet
Ben Haim

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Offline pies

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #13 on: July 13, 2009, 03:37:39 PM
Some favourites:
Bach D major toccata BWV 912
Willem Breuker's Underberg
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Offline argerichfan

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #14 on: July 13, 2009, 03:50:01 PM
Don't forget the Busoni Toccata, a fine work which Alfred Brendel once wrote was one of the hardest pieces he ever learned.

Re the Schumann Toccata mentioned above, Argerich reportedly warms up with it.  (Would be nice to be a fly on the wall... with an iPhone to record it.) 
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #15 on: July 13, 2009, 05:16:28 PM
If my failing memory serves me, I remember a set of toccatas by Sweelinck being pleasing to my ears.

Thal
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Offline indutrial

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #16 on: July 13, 2009, 06:43:22 PM
My research on several twentieth century composers has turned up numerous toccatas, since most of these guys are huge Bach/baroque enthusiasts. Some of them aren't solo piano pieces, but oh well.

Arnold Bax - Toccata in Db

Niels Viggo Bentzon - Toccata, op. 10 (1941)

Arthur Honegger - Toccata and Variations (1916)

Alexandre Tansman - Prelude & Toccata (1941), 3rd movement of his 3rd sonata, 3rd movement of his 1st sonatine, 6th movement of the Suite dans le style ancien, and Hommage à Arthur Rubinstein, 2nd movement. As well, lots of movements in his chamber works are toccatas.

Marcel Mihalovici - Toccata pour piano et orchestre, op. 44 (1950)

Pierre Sancan - Toccata (1943)

Roy Agnew - Toccata Tragica

Eduard Destenay - Toccata in a minor, op. 45

Jean Absil - 5th piece in 5 Bagatelles, op. 27, 4th movement of Grande Suite, op. 62, last section of Variations, op. 93. As with Tansman, a lot of toccata sections show up in his chamber work.

Emma Lou Diemer - Toccata

G. Tsouyopoulos - Toccata III (I haven't heard the other two, if they exist...)

Henk Badings - Toccata for marimba (1973)

Emmy Frensel Wegener - Toccata (1938?)

Edison Denisov - 1st movement of his Sonata for guitar (1981)

Karel Mengelberg - Toccata (written in dedication to Willem Pijper, 1950)

Alun Hoddinott - movements in his 4th Sonata (1968) and 5th sonata (1969), likely other works

William Mathias - Toccata alla danza (1965)

Roy Harris - Toccata (1950)
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Offline richard black

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #17 on: July 13, 2009, 06:45:57 PM
Arthur Bliss and EJ Moeran each wrote a Toccata. The Bliss one is certainly a lot of fun and I seem to remember that the Moeran is a fine piece too, though I haven't played it in many years.
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Offline pies

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #18 on: July 13, 2009, 07:08:54 PM
indutrial, I haven't heard any of the stuff you mentioned.  Can you post an mp3 or two?
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Offline indutrial

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #19 on: July 13, 2009, 09:09:44 PM
Here's the 3rd movement of Tansman's 3rd sonata.

As well, here is the Roy Harris Toccata.

Many of the others I've mentioned haven't been recorded. I, for one, would really love to see the Mihalovici work for piano/orch. come to light.

Enjoy
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Offline indutrial

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #20 on: July 13, 2009, 09:16:46 PM
Another good toccata I forgot to mention before is Marian Borkowski's from 1934. Polish composers apparantly liked this format, because Lukaszewski and Bacewicz also have some great toccatas in their catalogues.

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Offline indutrial

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #21 on: July 13, 2009, 09:23:22 PM
And yet another nice one by American composer Ellis Kohs. The only recording I have is this one, played on harpsichord, but the piece was written to be played on either that instrument or piano.

The quality is a bit dodgy on this one, but it was originally recorded on analog and reissued on digital, thus further highlighting any sound issues.

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Offline retrouvailles

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #22 on: July 13, 2009, 11:59:01 PM
I knew this thread was a good idea. This is exactly what I wanted. I wasn't really looking for baroque (and earlier) toccatas because they weren't written for piano, simply because it hadn't existed yet. I ideally wanted something designed with the modern piano in mind, so the more recent suggestions are great.
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Offline milibabie

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #23 on: July 14, 2009, 01:07:23 AM
indutrial : nice list. The 3 Toccatas by Georges Tsouyopoulos do exist. I have a recording of all 3 on an out-of-print Greek cd.

2 more to help out:

Valarie Jelobinsky : Toccata (1933) from 6 Short Etudes (just 1 minute long and an excellent encore!)

Raymond Lewenthal : Toccata alla Scarlatti (at about 2:45 it is a capricious little effective piece, that really sounds like Scarlatti, but romanticized. :)
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Offline pies

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #24 on: July 14, 2009, 01:11:24 AM
Here's the Breuker piece I mentioned.  Not sure if you guys will like it.  It's a short, fun piece.  Not too "modern" sounding.
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Offline indutrial

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #25 on: July 14, 2009, 01:21:52 AM
I've not heard them, but George Antheil also wrote two toccatas, the second of which contains dynamic markings that tell the pianist to make the work sound "ultra dry."

Tansman's inclusion of fleet-fingered sections in his works can be traced to his earliest years as a virtuoso performer. Players interested in a toccata-like workout should try learning his third Transcendental Etude (attached is a MIDI realization I worked out and an MP3 of the MIDI played through my dusty old Yamaha synth-driver), composed in 1922 at the age of 25 when he was studying in Paris.
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Offline lontano

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #26 on: July 14, 2009, 01:54:25 AM
Quote from: retrouvailles on July 13, 2009, 04:30:08 AM
This is inspired by lontano's post in another thread. Just name some toccatas for piano (or toccata-like works) that come to your mind. I would like to have a big, long list from all periods that I or someone else can reference (I love toccatas too, just like lontano). I'll just name three that came to my mind immediately, which I love:

Sergei Prokofiev - Toccata in D minor, Op. 11
York Bowen - Toccata in A minor, Op. 155
Louis Andriessen - Image de Moreau

Hopefully this thread will last longer than lontano feared it would!
:o It looks like I'm not alone when it comes to toccatas!  :D
That's quite a list that's growing here, and I'm a bit concerned I might not have much else to offer... But here are a couple:

Boris Blacher: Zwei Toccaten
Sepp Grotenhuis: at least 2 toccatas from larger works
Maybe taking a leap with the 4th movement of Ginastera's 1st Sonata ::)
Definitely taking a leap with the 2nd movement of Beethoven's Sonata #22, Op54  8)

Well, good work people, and thanks to retrouvailles we've learned from each other some new works! :o

Lontano
 
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Offline retrouvailles

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #27 on: July 14, 2009, 05:39:42 AM
Quote from: lontano on July 14, 2009, 01:54:25 AM
Sepp Grotenhuis: at least 2 toccatas from larger works

Wow, I had no idea he was a composer. I just know his recordings as a pianist well (works by Escher, Andriessen, and other Dutch composers). I'll be talking to my Dutch contacts about him, being a Dutch music fan.
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Offline ballade_1

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #28 on: July 14, 2009, 08:06:55 AM
Isn't the last movement of Prokofiev's 7th sonata a toccata? It is according to wikipedia anyway! In which case that, it's brilliant :)

(Excuse the awful rhyme!)
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Offline tanman

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #29 on: July 14, 2009, 11:55:02 AM
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Offline cherub_rocker1979

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #30 on: July 14, 2009, 06:44:44 PM
Ravel's Toccata from Le Tombeau de Couperin is gorgeous.
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Offline communist

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #31 on: July 14, 2009, 07:57:43 PM
If I recall correctly Eiges has a toccata? or am I thinking of the sonata-toccata?
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Offline communist

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #32 on: July 14, 2009, 08:36:07 PM
Roy Agnew toccata tragica
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Offline weissenberg2

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #33 on: July 14, 2009, 08:46:31 PM
Clementi op.11
Paderewski Introduction and Toccata, Op.6
Nenov Dimitar toccata
Godowsky op.13
Francesco Pollini Esercizio in forma di Toccata, Op.42
Busoni BV 287
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Offline retrouvailles

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #34 on: July 14, 2009, 09:06:35 PM
Quote from: communist on July 14, 2009, 08:36:07 PM
Roy Agnew toccata tragica

I've only seen a score for this piece, but have never seen a recording. Is there one out there?
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Offline communist

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #35 on: July 14, 2009, 11:29:21 PM
Quote from: retrouvailles on July 14, 2009, 09:06:35 PM
I've only seen a score for this piece, but have never seen a recording. Is there one out there?

not that I know of, I will look to see if there is.
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Offline indutrial

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #36 on: July 15, 2009, 07:30:37 AM
There is an Agnew toccata included in this Australian box set of Tamara Anna Cislowska's performances. Worldcat lists two separately published toccatas (the 'tragica' from 1922 and another one from 1933) so this could be the latter of those:

https://www.buywell.com/cgi-bin/buywellic2/afly.html?mv_arg=12513

As well, Worldcat lists what looks to be a music school's archival recording (performed by Larry Sitsky!) that definitely includes the Toccata Tragica work. Best of luck for anyone who wants to trying getting their hands on that because it looks pretty rare.

https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/44840099&referer=brief_results
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Offline invictious

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #37 on: July 15, 2009, 01:02:10 PM
Bach write numerous Toccatas, and they are gems in piano literature IMO, especially BWV 914, the one in E minor.
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Offline lontano

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #38 on: July 16, 2009, 02:33:28 AM
Quote from: retrouvailles on July 14, 2009, 05:39:42 AM
Wow, I had no idea he was a composer. I just know his recordings as a pianist well (works by Escher, Andriessen, and other Dutch composers). I'll be talking to my Dutch contacts about him, being a Dutch music fan.
All I have is one set of piano works that bring to mind Satie and Debussy. Nothing very exotic, although there is a variety of degrees of difficulty. It's all pretty easy on the ear. Otherwise I don't know much more about the composer/pianist.
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Offline retrouvailles

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #39 on: July 17, 2009, 05:33:09 PM
Quote from: lontano on July 14, 2009, 01:54:25 AM
Sepp Grotenhuis: at least 2 toccatas from larger works

Speaking of Sepp Grotenhuis's recordings, he recorded a marvelous suite by Dutch composer Rudolf Escher, which is called Arcana. The second movement is a brilliant Toccata which should please most people and is quite accessible and fun.
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Offline arensky

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #40 on: July 17, 2009, 06:24:24 PM
Toccata, Zipoli-Ginastera.

Way cool  8)
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Offline minor9th

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #41 on: July 18, 2009, 02:05:45 AM
Phillip Ramey has written Toccata No.1 and 2.  Also look for Peter Mennin, York Bowen, Victor Kalibas, Searle (Threnos and Toccata), Victor Kosenko, and no doubt a few hundred more!
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Offline kay3087

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #42 on: July 18, 2009, 04:52:17 AM
Sweelinck wrote many toccatas which very unfortunately have yet to be recorded on piano.

And as mentioned the toccata from Ravel's Le tombeau de Couperin is wonderful, as all the pieces in that work are.
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Offline point of grace

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #43 on: July 18, 2009, 05:05:34 AM
waw, this is more than i could ever imagine about toccatas  :D
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Offline retrouvailles

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #44 on: July 18, 2009, 06:26:19 PM
Quote from: point of grace on July 18, 2009, 05:05:34 AM
waw, this is more than i could ever imagine about toccatas  :D

Yeah, it is quite a list. I'm sure more of you can think of some more suggestions! I am looking in particular for more suggestions that are non-baroque and, ergo, were written with a piano in mind, preferably the modern piano.
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Offline burstroman

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #45 on: July 18, 2009, 07:31:00 PM
Hi, here are several more toccatas:  Toccata movement ftom the suite "New and Old" by Wallingford Riegger, the toccata by George Onslow, and the one by Juan Jose Castro.
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Offline kay3087

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #46 on: July 18, 2009, 07:54:34 PM
The first movement of Vaughan Williams's Concerto for piano and orchestra, which was revised for two pianos later.
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Offline point of grace

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #47 on: July 18, 2009, 08:06:29 PM
Quote from: retrouvailles on July 18, 2009, 06:26:19 PM
Yeah, it is quite a list. I'm sure more of you can think of some more suggestions! I am looking in particular for more suggestions that are non-baroque and, ergo, were written with a piano in mind, preferably the modern piano.

i also prefer modern ones... after bach, the only one is the prokofieff's =P just joking!
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Offline jpowell

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #48 on: July 18, 2009, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: communist on July 14, 2009, 07:57:43 PM
If I recall correctly Eiges has a toccata? or am I thinking of the sonata-toccata?

Konstantin Eiges wrote a Toccatina which, despite its name which appears to imply a diminutive, is a 12-page quite meaty piece.

His son, Oleg, wrote the Sonata-Toccata - this is surely the piece you're thinking of. It's the fourth of his sonatas, as far as I remember.

I like both pieces, although they're pretty different examples of the toccata.

There's also a Toccata by Nikita Magaloff. Also ones by Casedessus, op.40. Antheil. Casella, op.60. Kapustin, Toccatina. Muczynski, Balakirev, Raitio, Ranta, Schoeck, Schmidt, Schulhoff, Vogel (Etude-Toccata), Guarnieri, Petyrek (2pf, with fugue), Smetana (Toccatina), Liszt, Lyapunov (with fugue, a late piece I think), ...

... err, I think that will do for now.
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Offline neardn

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Re: Piano Toccatas!
Reply #49 on: July 18, 2009, 09:17:52 PM
I've just listened to the toccata from Ravel's Le tombeau de Couperin again and couldn't help noticing how extremely similar it is to the third movement from his Concerto in G major.
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