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Another topic about the C major Etude (Chopin) (Read 2367 times)

Offline pseudopianist

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Another topic about the C major Etude (Chopin)
« on: June 24, 2004, 03:34:22 PM »
I hope someone here understands the f*ck I'm talking about.  ;)

When going from a  C G C E arpeggio to another one... how do I do that legato? Or do I need to "jump" to the next arpeggio?Pretty hard to play with the thumb under. ;)
Whisky and Messiaen

JK

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Re: Another topic about the C major Etude (Chopin)
«Reply #1 on: June 24, 2004, 03:50:20 PM »
I've never played this piece ( I find it very hard cos I have very small hands!) however I think I know what you mean. It has something to do with the freenes and movement of the wrist and arm, I could show you but can't think how to explain it! sorry!

Offline Saturn

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Re: Another topic about the C major Etude (Chopin)
«Reply #2 on: June 24, 2004, 04:00:02 PM »
Huh?

There's no need for thumb under or thumb over in this etude.

Going up you use the fingering 1245.  Going down, 5421 repeatedly.

So there's no need to cross any finger over any other.  The hand should merely keep shifting to the right.  The trick is in the shift from finger 5 to finger 1 (the start of the next arpeggio).

The etude should also be played with pedal, so legato shouldn't be a problem.

Also, see this thread:
http://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=perf;action=display;num=1086185355

- Saturn

Offline pseudopianist

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Re: Another topic about the C major Etude (Chopin)
«Reply #3 on: June 24, 2004, 04:22:13 PM »
It is the shift from finger 5 to 1 I wonder about. :p

Thanks for your replys tho. :)
Whisky and Messiaen

Offline newsgroupeuan

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Re: Another topic about the C major Etude (Chopin)
«Reply #4 on: June 24, 2004, 08:40:14 PM »
Quote
I hope someone here understands the f*ck I'm talking about.  ;)

When going from a  C G C E arpeggio to another one... how do I do that legato? Or do I need to "jump" to the next arpeggio?Pretty hard to play with the thumb under. ;)


Use the cartwheel.

They are not arpeggi as in the ones you get in scale book - do what works.  I do not consider things to be thumb over or thumb under.  Again,  experiment - and do what works

Offline monk

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Re: Another topic about the C major Etude (Chopin)
«Reply #5 on: June 24, 2004, 08:44:43 PM »
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The etude should also be played with pedal, so legato shouldn't be a problem.


Ow! If you want to play it really with proper technique, you have to practice it without pedal (of course slowly first), so that you do the legato really with the fingers and the fingers are really in the keybed.

Practicing with pedal from start is cheating. The danger is that you play "superficially", i.e., you don't really press the keys completely to the "ground" and just for a very short time (so that if you would take the pedal away, a very light staccato would result). A real control over the dynamics and phrasing can only be achieved with pedal-less legato practice.

Best Wishes,
Monk


f0bul0us

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Re: Another topic about the C major Etude (Chopin)
«Reply #6 on: June 24, 2004, 09:17:26 PM »
Thank you, Monk. Though, pedal is not "manditory" in all parts of the etude, lifting it for (certain) complete ascending and descending arpeggios definitely doesn't hurt. Just listen to Cziffra's recording, the real skill comes not from being able to play it quickly, but to be able to play it quickly and have a good legato without the pedal.

Good luck! ;D

Offline maxy

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Re: Another topic about the C major Etude (Chopin)
«Reply #7 on: June 24, 2004, 09:29:38 PM »
instead of thinking 1-2-4-5 (stretch hand)
try 2-4-5-1 (close hand with thumb)
that way it is actually a very "closed hand" study...

no need to worry about hand size, small can do.

Offline mozartgonebad

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Re: Another topic about the C major Etude (Chopin)
«Reply #8 on: July 02, 2004, 01:00:18 AM »
you can just use the fingering 1245 repeatedly going up and 5421 going down...i dont think there is a reason to cross fingers or anything ;D

anyway that was my first post
~~*GOOD QUOTES*~~

"There are more bad musicians than there is bad music."
--Isaac Stern"

"There are still so many beautiful things to be said in C major."
-- Sergei Prokofiev

f0bul0us

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Re: Another topic about the C major Etude (Chopin)
«Reply #9 on: July 02, 2004, 10:43:56 PM »
I use 1-2-3-5 ascending and descending, I think there's only two arppegios (descending) where I actually use 1-2-4-5. But my fingers are long (14 key reach) and slender (as opposed to thick and stubby) so doing the racing arpeggios without any type of wrist tension is easy.  As a way of practice (again, if your hands are big enough) practice the entire thing as 4 note chords in the open position they appear. Also, if you're having trouble keeping the jumps from 5-1 smooth without putting accentuation on your thumb just spend a few days playing 5-1 as an inversion of the 4-note chord.

So it would be kinda like this
1-2-3(4)-5
1
but you would treat 5 and 1 as 64th notes, playing them as fast as possible.

Offline MasterTuner

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Re: Another topic about the C major Etude (Chopin)
«Reply #10 on: July 05, 2004, 04:21:44 AM »
Use 1245 up, 5421 down.  Also start out slowly without pedal and with metronome.  In fact I suggest doing all etudes without pedal and with metronome (once you know the music).l  Increase speed until you achieve the legato effect.

Offline Saturn

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Re: Another topic about the C major Etude (Chopin)
«Reply #11 on: July 05, 2004, 04:23:38 AM »
Quote
But my fingers are long (14 key reach)


Aren't you asian?  How the hell did you wind up with such long fingers?  You've got about the same reach as Rachmaninoff, I think.

- Saturn

f0bul0us

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Re: Another topic about the C major Etude (Chopin)
«Reply #12 on: July 05, 2004, 11:45:16 PM »
Quote


Aren't you asian?  How the hell did you wind up with such long fingers?  You've got about the same reach as Rachmaninoff, I think.

- Saturn

I'm a very rare breed of Asian ;D

Offline xvimbi

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Re: Another topic about the C major Etude (Chopin)
«Reply #13 on: July 06, 2004, 12:01:47 AM »
Quote

I'm a very rare breed of Asian ;D

Fourteen keys :o :o :o Are you talking about fourteen white keys? That is one key less than two full octaves :o :o :o And you can play that? Do you by any chance have a smaller keyboard?

f0bul0us

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Re: Another topic about the C major Etude (Chopin)
«Reply #14 on: July 06, 2004, 03:58:47 AM »
Quote

Fourteen keys :o :o :o Are you talking about fourteen white keys? That is one key less than two full octaves :o :o :o And you can play that? Do you by any chance have a smaller keyboard?

It's a regular sized piano, I take extreme advantage of having such big hands (e.g. regular g major scale in octaves = 1=3, 1-3, 1-3, 1-3, 1-3, 1-3, 1-4, 1-5)

lol