Low/Mid-End Keyboards

[Peachy_Keen]

I browsed a few pages of the forum for something about this but I didn't find anything, my apologies if i'm covering old ground.

Currently i'm using a rather elderly electronic keyboard. It has a hundred odd sound effects ranging from gunshots to helicopter rotors, but the actual "piano" settings sound terrible. The keys are featherlight and offer no real resistance, and the volume modulation is awkward. It really makes practice feel counterproductive.

I do have access to a decent piano at times, but I would like something that is pleasant to practice with. If someone could direct me to a particular model/brand of keyboards that would meet my needs, I would be very appreciative.

If you have any questions feel free to ask, i'll be checking this thread frequently.  

[xvimbi]

I browsed a few pages of the forum for something about this but I didn't find anything, my apologies if i'm covering old ground.

Currently i'm using a rather elderly electronic keyboard. It has a hundred odd sound effects ranging from gunshots to helicopter rotors, but the actual "piano" settings sound terrible. The keys are featherlight and offer no real resistance, and the volume modulation is awkward. It really makes practice feel counterproductive.

I do have access to a decent piano at times, but I would like something that is pleasant to practice with. If someone could direct me to a particular model/brand of keyboards that would meet my needs, I would be very appreciative.

If you have any questions feel free to ask, i'll be checking this thread frequently.  

There are many threads on this forum that deal with your "problem". Check them out first. Also, you havn't really specified your needs, but look at Yamaha P-90, P-120, P-250, PF-500, PF-1000, Clavinovas. No real need to look any further than that. Check out www.yamahasynth.com as well as www.yamaha.com
If you live in the U.S., go to the nearest GuitarCenter and check out as much as you can. Also, take a look at https://www.harmony-central.com/Synth/

[Peachy_Keen]

Thanks for the advice, xvimbi. I know there have been a few threads dealing with similar issues, I should rephrase my first statement. I did find a few directions to go in (which I have been looking into since that last post), but no real solutions have popped up.

I'd like to try to avoid spending a thousand dollars on a piano, that may not seem like much but for my particular situation it is a bit excessive. I'm looking for something to practice with inbetween the times that I don't have access to a nicer piano.

EDIT: I've browsed through a selection of 4-5 hundred dollar keyboards. They seem to be packed with features I don't need.. USB/LCD/whatever. Ideally the piano would be a fairly simple arrangement under 500$. If I need to pay more to get quality sound that is fine. Are there any specific models I should be looking at?

[xvimbi]

Thanks for the advice, xvimbi. I know there have been a few threads dealing with similar issues, I should rephrase my first statement. I did find a few directions to go in (which I have been looking into since that last post), but no real solutions have popped up.

I'd like to try to avoid spending a thousand dollars on a piano, that may not seem like much but for my particular situation it is a bit excessive. I'm looking for something to practice with inbetween the times that I don't have access to a nicer piano.

EDIT: I've browsed through a selection of 4-5 hundred dollar keyboards. They seem to be packed with features I don't need.. USB/LCD/whatever. Ideally the piano would be a fairly simple arrangement under 500$. If I need to pay more to get quality sound that is fine. Are there any specific models I should be looking at?

1. Don't get a keyboard, get an electric piano instead.
2. IMO, there is no really useful electric piano in the $500 price range.

It is pretty much "you get what you pay for". You need a basic level of quality. Otherwise, it will not only be a waste of money, but you will actually suffer, or at least not improve, in terms of technique.

Make sure, that the piano has 88 keys, that they are weighted and have the standard size. The P-90 is the lowest-level Yamaha I can recommend, but it does not have speakers and pedaling will not be authentic. You will need to connect it to a stereo or a computer. Kawai makes an entry-level piano too. Don't worry about USB and other features. They don't add a lot to the price of a piano. You won't find pianos without those features anyway.

You can often negotiate lower prices if you are willing to take a floor model.

YOU GOT TO CHECK OUT EVERYTHING FOR YOURSELF AND THEN DECIDE IF YOU WILL BE ABLE TO LIVE WITH YOUR PURCHASE.

[Peachy_Keen]

Thanks again! I needed someone to disillusion me about this stuff.

How about the Roland EP760? Have you had any experience with that particular model?

[xvimbi]

Thanks again! I needed someone to disillusion me about this stuff.

How about the Roland EP760? Have you had any experience with that particular model?

No. It has only 76 keys.

[Peachy_Keen]

*sigh* All my attempts at price grubbing seem to be turning into wicked failures.

I can connect the P-90 to a pair of headphones, correct? I have a nice stereo setup but bringing it around with me would kind of negate the whole portability aspect i'm going for. What will happen if I connect it to a smaller stereo, like one of those little Bose ones?

[xvimbi]

*sigh* All my attempts at price grubbing seem to be turning into wicked failures.

I can connect the P-90 to a pair of headphones, correct? I have a nice stereo setup but bringing it around with me would kind of negate the whole portability aspect i'm going for. What will happen if I connect it to a smaller stereo, like one of those little Bose ones?

Headphones are perfectly fine. In fact, they are superior compared to a mediocre speaker system. The P-90 is very good, but does not allow authentic pedaling (if that is an issue).

[donjuan]

I have a Roland FP3 in my bedroom, and I am quite satisfied with it, except for the pedaling which is always all the way on, or not on at all...really sucks.  I dont think it is realistic for you to believe you can find a digital with more authentic touch for less than 1000 USD.  Yamahas are good for having fun, but as practice instruments, they suck- even the most expensive ones, and you should go with Roland instead.  I payed 2000 canadian dollars for my Roland, and it was well worth it.

note: Go for the digitals without all the fancy cabinet.  It is more portable and costs WAY less.

happy shopping,
donjuan

[Peachy_Keen]

Yamahas are good for having fun, but as practice instruments, they suck- even the most expensive ones,
happy shopping,
donjuan

Why is the Yamaha bad as a practice instrument?

EDIT: Would it be ok to buy a digital piano over something like ebay? I'd prefer to get one new but if it would save money i'd have to give it some thought.

[xvimbi]

Yamahas are good for having fun, but as practice instruments, they suck- even the most expensive ones, and you should go with Roland instead.

Please, donjuan, rather than making indiscriminate statements that don't help anyone, save us some time and effort and lay out your reasons why you are slamming Yamaha digitals and why you prefer the Rolands.

[Peachy_Keen]

There are a few authorised Yamaha dealers within 20 miles of my house, so I will be taking a few trips this weekend to see what's available. I'm going to try to avoid getting it off of the internet.

I have just a couple more quick questions... so I know what to expect when I go searching.

Are the prices for digital keyboards set in stone?
How closely would a piano like the P90 behave like a normal piano?
How long do they generally last, if they are well taken care of?
Are the harpischord/organ/effects just for show or are they actually usable?

[xvimbi]

There are a few authorised Yamaha dealers within 20 miles of my house, so I will be taking a few trips this weekend to see what's available. I'm going to try to avoid getting it off of the internet.

I have just a couple more quick questions... so I know what to expect when I go searching.

Are the prices for digital keyboards set in stone?
How closely would a piano like the P90 behave like a normal piano?
How long do they generally last, if they are well taken care of?
Are the harpischord/organ/effects just for show or are they actually usable?

Prices are pretty much set in stone, unless you can get a floor-model. Internet dealers are cheaper as they don't charge taxes and often not even for shipping. Sometimes, you can get local dealers to match Internet prices, but you'll still have to pay taxes.

No action on digitals will be like a real action. The Yamahas have an excellent, albeit a bit heavy, action. Typically for Yamaha, the keys are rather deep, much deeper than, say, regular Steinways. I personally like the Yamaha action better than any other action on reasonably priced digitals, but that's clearly personal preference. The bottom line is that the Yamaha action on the P and PF-series is very good. Keep in mind that digitals usually don't simulate the escapement mechanism, only the high-end ones do (several thousand $$).

I must repeat myself: you must decide for yourself how well a digital piano resembles a real piano. Play them all, even those that are well outside your budget, so that you can see what the span is. It helps if the store has acoustic pianos as well to compare. All digitals have demo songs that you can play with the press of a button, so that you can hear what the instrument is capable of. You can change voice, tempo, etc. on the pieces, too.

I believe digitals from the reputable manufacturers last very long, even if you occasionally play FF, which would have worn out older digitals rather quickly. Remember, the stage pianos that most pop and Jazz musicians use are exactly what you are looking at.

Depending on the model you choose, the sounds will be anywhere from awful to excellent. The P-series Yamahas have good samples. Definitely check them out with headphones, as it's often noisy in stores.

I personally have a PF-500 for practizing in piece and quiet. Far from other people's opinion, I don't think it sucks  

Finally, however many digitals you check out and whatever the salespeople tell you, do not buy this weekend. Write down which models you are considering, download (and study!) the manuals, check the Internet for reviews (particularly on the sites I listed in an earlier post). If you still have questions, ask again.

Have fun!

[Peachy_Keen]

In the future (if I get a digital piano) i'm planning on buying an amplifier and a few speakers, or using some of my existing audio equipment... will these need to be top of the line to retain sound clarity or will I be able to get something in the middle range?

[xvimbi]

In the future (if I get a digital piano) i'm planning on buying an amplifier and a few speakers, or using some of my existing audio equipment... will these need to be top of the line to retain sound clarity or will I be able to get something in the middle range?

Garbage in - garbage out! Entirely depends on the sound sample in the digital piano you decide to get. Keep in mind that you can always use the keyboard as a controller, hook it up to a computer, have really good sound generated in the computer, play it through good speakers, and you'll have very, very good piano sounds (but not perfect!).

[Peachy_Keen]

What quality sound samples do digital pianos generally come with? Is it dependent on their price, or will I find expensive pianos with bad sound samples? I'd rather avoid using my laptop.

[2000fordfocus]

Hello,

I myself is look for a new digital piano too and I came up with the Kawai L1 digital piano.  The best part is its price at only $1050 Canadian....  I can't find anything remotely lower with hammer keys!  But the bad part is, it has only Max. Polyphony  32 Notes...  

[xvimbi]

What quality sound samples do digital pianos generally come with? Is it dependent on their price, or will I find expensive pianos with bad sound samples? I'd rather avoid using my laptop.

Quality is reasonably good, but limited by the amount of memory. You are not limited by memory in good computers, so you can have much more advanced sound samples at hand. I found that the piano samples that Apple gives away with GarageBand ($49) already sound better in many aspects than the Yamaha sound samples in the P series (there are also bad aspects, though). A $300 investment will get you state of the art piano sound. MIDI keyboard -> USB -> computer -> headphones/stereo.

[xvimbi]

Hello,

I myself is look for a new digital piano too and I came up with the Kawai L1 digital piano.  The best part is its price at only $1050 Canadian....  I can't find anything remotely lower with hammer keys!  But the bad part is, it has only Max. Polyphony  32 Notes...  

If it feels and sounds good to YOU, go for it. However, you have to compare all digitals in that price range to make a decision. I personally would stay away from the Kawai and go for a Yamaha instead, but that's personal preference.

[donjuan]

lay out your reasons why you are slamming Yamaha digitals and why you prefer the Rolands.

well, when I was in the Yamaha Store, I played on an expensive clavinova.  About 8000 Canadian.  The touch was unrealistically reponsive, the keys flew like the wind and it was a hell of a lot of fun.  But, I couldnt control anything- the sound, the evenness of my touch- It seemed to produce a great tone whether you use the weight of your hand, or thrash with the muscles.  I found it a lot of fun because the music sounded great no matter how badly I played.  When I tried Roland, I found the keyboard more sensitive to my touch, and therefore, more useful for practicing.

Of course, xvimbi, you probably think what I say is nonsense, which it very well may be.  All I can offer is my experiences.

PeechyKeen, I suggest you go for the digital that is difficult to control, much like an acoustic is.
donjuan

[xvimbi]

Of course, xvimbi, you probably think what I say is nonsense, which it very well may be.  All I can offer is my experiences.

I don't think at all what you say is nonsense. Not as long as you have cogent arguments.

I think lack of control is a problem (feature) of pretty much all digitals. There is no digital, to my knowledge, that produces sound depending on how keys are accelerated. I just played a couple of Rolands in a store (can't remember the model, but they were in the $2,500 range). I still prefer Yamaha's action, perhaps, because I am used to it.
There is one feature that I really don't like, and maybe this is what you are talking about: on an acoustic grand, one does not get any sound unless one depresses a key with a certain minimal velocity. If, let's say, the velocity with which one can press down a key is divided into 128 steps, nothing happens on an acoustic below step, say, 25. On the Yamahas, one does get sound already around step 5. I wish I could adjust the response curve myself. I guess, I will have to connect my keyboard through MIDI to my computer to have more flexibility.