Question regarding Sostenuto pedal...

[Shagdac]

I have not had much experience using the Sust. pedal and am alittle confused. The piece I'm currently in (Union, Gottschalk) has several places where it occurs. I understand why it's there in the areas where the bass note is supposed to be held, but the once area at the beginning of the Star Spangled Banner portion also has this. The first severl measures are just eighth notes for the bass, so I'm confused at what the composer is trying to accomplish here. Is it possible since the bass note is held starting in the 4th or so measure, that he begins to use it from the beginning just to get the pianist ready? Any advice is appreciated. Also, when using this pedal, do you use the other pedal, releasing the same as you normally would. Do they ever put BOTH pedal markings, or is it "assumed" that you would normally just know to use it as well?

Thanks much,
S

[faulty_damper]

What kind of sostenuto pedal do you have?

There are two that I am aware of.
1. The actual sostenuto pedal where stepping on it after playing notes will hold those notes' dampers up thereby allowing those strings to vibrate.  However, if stepped on and then notes are played, nothing will happen - the dampers will silence the strings just as normal.  This action will hold any notes with dampers, not just the bass strings.

2. The cheap alternative to real sostenuto action: the bass string dampers are raised when you step on the pedal, and functions just like the damper pedal.

Depending on which of these two you have, you may have to disregard the sostenuto instruction because it will be impossible to follow if you do not have the action in 1.  I have the action in 2, by the way.

Any advice is appreciated. Also, when using this pedal, do you use the other pedal, releasing the same as you normally would.

Yes, you can if you have the action described in 1.  Since whatever notes were held by the sostenuto pedal, the use of the damper will raise all of the dampers but the sostenuto will keep those notes raised until you release the pedal.  

You can also use it with the action described in 2 but the problem is with the bass string dampers raised, the strings will vibrate as the notes in the treble are played.  If you don't know how this works, try this:  Press C1 without striking the string and keep it depressed.  Then play C4 and release.  Notice how the C1 string vibrates after C4 was struck?  Try it again but this time, instead of playing C4, play D4 while still holding C1.  Notice that C1 doesn't vibrate when D4 is struck?  This is what happens to all of the strings if you have the action described in 2.

Do they ever put BOTH pedal markings, or is it "assumed" that you would normally just know to use it as well?

It depends.  From the music I've seen, whenever it says to use the sostenuto, that means explicitly to use the sostenuto but any other phrases played after the sostenuto can be played without damper or with.  You are going to have to experiment with which sounds best.

The first severl measures are just eighth notes for the bass, so I'm confused at what the composer is trying to accomplish here.

If you mean that the bass note is played over and over, repeating the same note, then that just means he wants the note to be played without being silenced.  The same effect can be had if you play the note without letting up so much that the damper silences the string before the next note is played.  It sounds the same as using the sostenuto but is much easier to use the sostenuto to hold that note.

[f0bul0us]

Hmmm...

1.  Do not engage the damper pedal with the sostenuto opedal. Doing so would hold up all the dampers.
2. The sostenuto pedal feels different and operates differently on every piano (as said by faulty_damper). The pedal is rarely regulated, even in concert hall pianos. Don't depend on the sostenuto pedal unless you know the instrument you will be performing on contains one.
3. Avoid its use unless specifically marked - especially in music of the 19th century. This is not only because of the unreliability of the mechanism and the need for spli-second timing, but also because the music was not written with these special effects in mind.

[Shagdac]

Thanks for the advise. It's for a piece written in the 1800's. The piano's I have for practice, lessons, etc have the "fake" sostenuto, which would be # 2 right?
However the piano that I hope to compete on would DEFINATELY have a real one.

Also, the eighth note it is written under, is not repeated over and over, or even again. Just played that once. Thats why I found it somewhat confusing. Guess I'll have to experiment with it, but kinda hard, when not many pianos have the real thing.

Thanks again for your help.
S