feeling of fingers being too long

[Bob]

"Too long" isn't quite the right wording.  It's the feeling in the fingers that they aren't as curled as they should be and that it takes more effort to pull them in to hit the keys. 

Just wondering if anyone else has experience this. 

And if you have a solution.  I have one, but I'm wondering if there are better ideas on it.

[turayza]

That's quite interesting...
I sort-of had that problem before, but then my teacher fixed it. Hrm.
I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing, but I did a lot of dropping exersizes (whacking 10-note chords, mostly) and tapping stuff (when away from the piano, I tapped different fingers against my thumb to get that curled position) which helped. What solution are you thinking of?

[Bob]

The angle of my fingers feels too obtuse.  Haha.

I want to see what other people say before I give my solution.

[turayza]

Hahah, that's an interesting way of describing it. Did you have this problem before?

[Bob]

Yes.  But it was from pushing speed too much.  Which makes sense -- I just did it again.  Move the fingers fast, and I point them out straight.

I don't know what it is lately.  Probably not enough practicing overall.  My hands feel a bit rusty.  But this obtuse-angle-finger program isn't from lack of playing.  It's a form issue.  Not sure exactly what's causing it now. 

[turayza]

Ah...that's kind of strange. Maybe you're sitting too high up/too low? I'm going to go sit in front of the keyboard an experiment, hahah.

[turayza]

I'm not sure if this will help, but here's what I got:
I had more of a problem curving my fingers when I was sitting too high. This was because my wrist went up, and then my first finger joint collapsed. (Cue-sp? problems.)
Tensing up at the shoulder/neck area (which tends to happen to me when I play quickly) makes my fingers stiff, too.

Maybe your problem is something that can be fixed by changing the fingering on your pieces, if it's related to how fast you are playing. ...?

[Bob]

That's true.  Having the wrist too high could be it and I might be doing that.  I've been using different pianos recently.

My solution was to do "finger curls."  Just scratch the key with each finger, making sure to have a circular motion with the tip.  It pulls the fingers back in so when they're at rest, they're more curled.  Extremely boring to practice though but it does give a workout.

[jgallag]

Yes.  But it was from pushing speed too much.  Which makes sense -- I just did it again.  Move the fingers fast, and I point them out straight.

Well, this is probably because when they're straight, it's easier for them to move in the proper manner. Meaning, the movement originates at the joint that joins the finger to the hand. Keeping the finger straight stops movement in the other two joints. So, you need to learn to play from this first joint at all times, even when your fingers are curled.

I have no clue what you're talking about with "more effort", although I assume I'd have to be in your body to fully understand.

I would venture to guess, though, that you might experience a difference if you weren't so preoccupied with your fingers. Perhaps if you visualized the fingers as an extension of the arm, you'd experience more ease.

[jmanpno]

Why don't you just move your fingers, hand and arm out when long fingers are playing, and in when short ones are playing... taking the topography of the keyboard into account, of course.

[Bob]

I figured it out.  I just need to scratch the keys more, possibly relax more, when that happens.  It's from pushing things.  And it's not necessarily a bad sign.

I saw the title on this thread and thought, "Man that sounds weird but I kind of understand what they're getting at... Oh I wrote that."

[jmanpno]

but if your fingers are curled, aren't they gonna be too tight and too "short" at times? lol

[technique]

Why don't you just move your fingers, hand and arm out when long fingers are playing, and in when short ones are playing... taking the topography of the keyboard into account, of course.

Hold on, while it may be handy to move your fingers, hand and arm out to grab at comic books the piano is something a little different. In grade 5 or 6 we learn all kinds of scales including formula pattern which eliminate these elementary issues, if taught properly. ..I'm very happy to see your interest and wish you luck in the big day when you can play with your hands together. If your attempting now, best be patient and learn how to do scales....that way you can offer real assistance when sincere questions are asked.

BTW arn't you the person who said I should be banned...with no explanation...weird, just joined this week....will prob leave due to your boorish comment though.

Incedently...if theres anyone here who thinks they know how to do scales...lets have
right hand ....4 octaves C major scale (  slow...countable).....left hand F major arppeg...4 octaves at slow speed, countable with reasonable legato ( all three inversions), perfect timing, perfect hand motion, ...arched strikes, clarity legato...in other words no jerking elbow like the post I'm quoting by uh...jmanpno.....  camera from the top.Give it a go jmanpo  , maybe your ready to put your hands together on the piano instead of the big heap of comic books.


a model would help this forum...I'm not providing...you guys know much more then myself...I'm sure of it, so lets see. I want to learn.






 

[jmanpno]

Hi technique.  Yes, I did suggest that you be banned.  I thought trolls were always well aware of their actions....

In any event, you may blather on about your "grade 5 or 6" and "formula patterns".  Although I must admit I have no idea as to what any of these three things may be! 

My answer was entirely valid and guided at helping someone who has a very real concern: the feeling of his fingers being "too long".  It's also obvious from OP's dicussion of the fingers being "curled" when at rest that he has perhaps only the slightest clue of how to negotiate the topography of the keyboard.  This topography was, by the way, a critical component of the equation that you simply ignored or ignorantly did not understand.  (Shall we add pervasive ignorance to the list of reasons to ban you?)

In any event, the sort of motions I suggested are the only ones that allow the hands to remain in a natural position and for the fingers, hand and arm to function within the optimal range of motion.  No need to "jerk" the elbow about at all!  Other motions take care of that.

The Good Book suggests that we not cast our pearls before swine.  Technique Swineheart, step down!  I shall not indulge you in such elementary feats where you set parameters you seem to know so little about.

[christefan]

This is a too limited in vision question, worrying about probably nothing.  Have you seen alot of competent pianists play?  Have you watched video by various great artists of the piano?  Have you compared the size and form of different people's hands,forearms, upper arms and their size in general?  Playing is still something of an individualized mechanic and art;  you have to adapt to your size and capability.  Watch Valentina with high wrists and very curled fingers play chopin 25-12 and then watch Horowitz play the same etude--completely different form and mechanics.  You also have to find what combination will produce the speed, tone and power that you are looking to play something at, that varies.  Tryi watching Argerich who is taking a much higher position now that she is older compared to where she played from when she was young.....good luck

[jmanpno]

Oh how insightful.  Observer how the very elect go about their business at the piano and then offer nothing in the way of advice to the OP.  Of course, if you have no idea how the body works or what you are looking at, you will always come to a warped conclusion.  You've said nothing wrong, but worse still said nothing!

[cmg]

"Too long" isn't quite the right wording.  It's the feeling in the fingers that they aren't as curled as they should be and that it takes more effort to pull them in to hit the keys. 

Just wondering if anyone else has experience this. 

And if you have a solution.  I have one, but I'm wondering if there are better ideas on it.

Sounds simply like a bad habit of playing flat-fingered.  Practice slowly with curved fingers raised high before each key strike.  Even try some Pischna or (God forbid) Hanon practiced this way.  It's what leading pedagogues suggest.  Curved fingers give you greater control in the long run.

[jmanpno]

Oh Goodness yes!  Isolation. What a joy! HA!

[Bob]

It's from pushing the tempo.  My fingers start to settle out a little farther in the first two joints. 

Scratching and relaxing the hand can put it back in place.  Yes, and finger raises.  Basically working the little amount of tension back out that builds up from pushing things.

[jmanpno]

Sorry Bob, there's a better way!  There should be nothing to relax from!

[fleetfingers]

I saw the title on this thread and thought, "Man that sounds weird but I kind of understand what they're getting at... Oh I wrote that."

OK, that's just hilarious!!!! Thanks for the laugh! 

[christefan]

Oh how insightful.  Observer how the very elect go about their business at the piano and then offer nothing in the way of advice to the OP.  Of course, if you have no idea how the body works or what you are looking at, you will always come to a warped conclusion.  You've said nothing wrong, but worse still said nothing!

If you don't think I said anything maybe you need to analyse your own playing and your interpretation of what I said--I studied with one of the best pianists in the US for 13 years and play at a concert level.  I am pointing out that people vary in size and the technique they use-in accomplished players that also evolves over time and there physical capabilities at the time.  Certainly somewhat curved fingers are the best approach but fixating on it isn't going to solve your playing problems and could create other issues with the larger mechanics needed to actually play at high speeds and concert hall volumes-bye

[Bob]

Sorry Bob, there's a better way!  There should be nothing to relax from!

Just to ask... What's the better way? 

I go with the philosophy that you have to stress things in order to strengthen them.  After they've been stressed/pushed a bit, you have to let them recover, reset the form, etc.  Scratching or curving the fingers would be reseting the form.  The feeling of them straightening out and staying more toward that position would be from pushing them to move faster.

[jmanpno]

Foolish Bob of a man!  We already discussed this.... move the fingers hand and arm in a bit, out a bit, forward a bit, and out forward a bit.... just as easy as can be!