In der Nacht

[Ecthelion]

Hi,

how difficult is the piece "In der Nacht" (Schumann, op 12 No. 5) ? How difficult (technically) compared with some preludes of Rach (for example op. 23 No. 5 or the well known c-sharp) ?

thx for advice,

Ecthelion

[Ecthelion]

Has nobody played this piece or another mvt. from op. 12?

[Logar1]

Yes i've played Falbe, Aufswung and Whims.
And I'm planning to begin with In der Nacht - from what I've heard this one is the hardest one in the set. It's hard to keep the "energy" through out the whole set and I think there is so much more "music" in all these pieces than the Rachmaninov Etudes - afterall they are just etudes. And In Der Nacht is considered as one of Schumanns finest short pieces.

Watch for the middle section - I found it quite challenging.

[Logar1]

Hmm sorry not Rach Etudes - should have been Rach Preludes But still I'm not very fond Rachmaninovs music although some of it is quite good.

[DarkWind]

Yeah, In der Nacht is pretty difficult. Good to know the Fantasiestucke is getting some attention, its simply beautiful. I love Ende vom Lied. Anyways, if you play In der Nacht, play the others. They work better as a set.

[ChiarinaWieck]

Yes, I have learned and perfomed In Der Nacht from Schumann's Fantasiestuke Op.12. The one advise I would give is to not ignore the middle F major section, which I believe to be not only the heart of the work, but also the most difficult. It is important to balance the syncopated melody with the bass line without letting the accompaniment get in the way. This whole cycle is well worth working through....

[maxy]

Cycle, cycle, cycle...
It becomes a boring concept.
Try them all, keep those you like! In der nacht is definitely one of the exciting ones!

Now, it seems when we want to play a Chopin study, we have to play the whole set.  Want to play a Schubert Impromptu?  No!no! You have to play 4 minimum! If you truly feel pieces must be played as a cycle, fine! Arrau's recording almost made me feel Liszt TE were pare of a cycle!   But the concept should not be imposed!  FREEDOM please!  Richter was the man! He refused to play the whole Schuman op.12 because he did not want to!

[ChiarinaWieck]

Good point..
Some are definately more interesting than others.

[Ecthelion]

Yes I agree. I like In der Nacht, Aufschwung, End vom Lied and Des Abends more than the other ones. But all are really nice from op. 12! It's ok that nobody has to play whole "cycles", first of all if the whole work is as big and difficult as the Beethoven Sonatas or other works like this.

Has someone played the BIG Fantasie op. 17 in C from Schumann? It seems to be a really hard piece... But it's absolutely wonderful!

Regards, Ecthelion

[ChiarinaWieck]

Not yet. It is such an amazing work that I wouldn't want to mess it up!

[ahmedito]

You COULD play it outside of the cycle, especially if you dont find them all equally interesting, but I think you would miss out on A LOT of insight on this music, because Schumman was a master at making psychological and thematic connections inside a cycle. Where this is best exemplified is of course in his lieder, but thats because they have text so its easier to see the connection. In my opinion a lot of the depth and psychological elements of this music are lost when you play them independantly of the cycle.

[Logar1]

Yes I agree. I like In der Nacht, Aufschwung, End vom Lied and Des Abends more than the other ones. But all are really nice from op. 12! It's ok that nobody has to play whole "cycles", first of all if the whole work is as big and difficult as the Beethoven Sonatas or other works like this.

Has someone played the BIG Fantasie op. 17 in C from Schumann? It seems to be a really hard piece... But it's absolutely wonderful!

Regards, Ecthelion

I haven't played the whole Fantasie yet, thought Im still working on it - taking me very long time to learn. But I've managed to tackle the 4th movement (some might refer is as the 3rd). And actually it's my favourite movement and I simply adore and love this movement. So beautyful and yet so simple - only annoying thing is to remember all the modulations

[versute]

I have just completed studying that piece, In der Nacht, and played it at my recital a couple of weeks ago.  It's an exciting piece to play.  Be sure to pay attention to the dynamics and create a suspense that builds up to the inner section, then play it smoothly and evenly.  The inner section was the most difficult for me to learn.  Keeping the 16th all even between the left and right hands was a challenge.  The best thing I can say about that is to left the right-hand melody sing, while the other notes just fall into place.  My favorite recoding I've heard of the piece is located here-
https://www.classicalarchives.com/artists/diev.html  He does an excellent job of creating a suspense and intrigue that is fitting for the title, "In the night". 

My professor always has me make up a story for the pieces we are working on, and sometimes this is difficult, but I had a vivid story that I put to this piece.  I thought of how there was a storm coming, off in the distance, but approaching rapidly.  There is a family in a house, sleeping, as the storm is in the middle of the night.  The parents awake and, sensing the imminent danger, dash to the children's rooms to gather them from their beds and take them to all to a safe place.  The storm arrives and they must run for shelter a bit outside the house.  The middle section arrives, as the storm seems to be passed.  There is a brief gratefulness in the air of having escaped.  But as soon as they feel comfort, the storm is not over, but roars back up, even more than the first pass.  Huddled under their shelter, the storm rages without, finally dissolving in a flash.  All is but a memory.

[hodi]

i think grillen is the best among those fantasy pieces..

[piano88]

Cycle, cycle, cycle...
It becomes a boring concept.
Try them all, keep those you like! In der nacht is definitely one of the exciting ones!

Now, it seems when we want to play a Chopin study, we have to play the whole set. Want to play a Schubert Impromptu? No!no! You have to play 4 minimum! If you truly feel pieces must be played as a cycle, fine! Arrau's recording almost made me feel Liszt TE were pare of a cycle! But the concept should not be imposed! FREEDOM please! Richter was the man! He refused to play the whole Schuman op.12 because he did not want to!

I disagree in part here. Its fine to extract single works and play them....you may have all notices that "traumerei" from Schumann op. 15 is a favourite encore and always has been. But don't abandon cycles completely. Schumann wrote the works together, just as Brahms did with Op. 116 for instance and they are always best heard as a whole.

Or perhaps we all should begin to play only the 18th Paganini variation..........thought not!