contemplating the meaning of mental practice

[db05]

So I took a break from music and met a new musician friend. Go figure.

She plays the bass (awesomeness) and tells me she practices air bass a lot. But of course. I've seen guitarists do that too, but I never figured it out myself. I cannot play piano on a tabletop either, though I memorize most of my pieces. My friend says it would help a lot if I learn it. I can't always be in front of a piano, right? I read Chang's book and it says a lot, but it also makes my head spin.

Nobody teaches these things at our school. So I have nowhere else to turn. What is MP and how do you develop it? It seems like a special ability. I have only met in real life, one person who can play tabletop piano. Is it learnable at all?

[samjohnson]

I tend to think it is more of an ability some are born with than a skill anyone can acquire.  I'm sure if you were to devote a lot of time to it, you would certainly improve, but only marginally.  Needless to say, I've never been able to do it.

[iroveashe]

I tend to think it is more of an ability some are born with than a skill anyone can acquire.

I tend to think that is nonsense. We don't even know how to see when we're born, how could someone know how to play an instrument in their minds without learning such skill? That's like saying perfect pitch is innate, but it isn't, you could have been born with a very good ear memory and learned it when you were a kid, therefore without even noticing it. But A=440Hz is arbitrary, and so is playing the piano so there's no way that you're born knowing it.

What it is likely is that you were born with the capability of learning it faster. But, as perfect pitch, it can be learned, the problem is that it's not easy.

db, have you read all of Chang's and Bernhard's advices concerning mental play? And if you have, have you re-read them recently?

Nobody teaches these things at our school.

That's probably one of the reasons why you only know one person who can do it and why some think it can't be learned.

[jgallag]

I tend to think that is nonsense. We don't even know how to see when we're born, how could someone know how to play an instrument in their minds without learning such skill? That's like saying perfect pitch is innate, but it isn't, you could have been born with a very good ear memory and learned it when you were a kid, therefore without even noticing it. But A=440Hz is arbitrary, and so is playing the piano so there's no way that you're born knowing it.

What it is likely is that you were born with the capability of learning it faster. But, as perfect pitch, it can be learned, the problem is that it's not easy.

db, have you read all of Chang's and Bernhard's advices concerning mental play? And if you have, have you re-read them recently?
That's probably one of the reasons why you only know one person who can do it and why some think it can't be learned.

I agree with iroveashe. You cannot be born with talent for something that was invented after the human body and mind (which includes almost everything). It's a biological impossibility. You may be born with traits that help, but there are so many traits that could help (good memory, hand shape, ear sensitivity, etc. ) that I'd expect virtually everyone has one, they just need to figure out which one it is and develop it to its fullest potential.

Also, you said Chang's book makes your head spin. So, you need to read an article on close reading. Print out Chang's section on mental practice, underline the main points of each paragraph, take notes on the page as to what you really want to remember, and highlight key information to help you. Then, using the article and your notes, write your own article in which you detail, for yourself, the daily steps you will use to acquire this skill. I'm pretty sure your head will be able to see straight by the end.

Don't forget to compare with bernhard's writings and any other writings you can find on the subject!

[samjohnson]

I tend to think that is nonsense. We don't even know how to see when we're born, how could someone know how to play an instrument in their minds without learning such skill? That's like saying perfect pitch is innate, but it isn't, you could have been born with a very good ear memory and learned it when you were a kid, therefore without even noticing it. But A=440Hz is arbitrary, and so is playing the piano so there's no way that you're born knowing it.

What it is likely is that you were born with the capability of learning it faster. But, as perfect pitch, it can be learned, the problem is that it's not easy.

db, have you read all of Chang's and Bernhard's advices concerning mental play? And if you have, have you re-read them recently?
That's probably one of the reasons why you only know one person who can do it and why some think it can't be learned.

You're absolutely right. 

After reading what you said, I have rethought what I wrote and would like to clarify.  I suppose what I meant was that most people "tend" towards particular methods of learning; that is, some learn best by thinking something through, others by doing it.  In my experience, everyone seems predisposed to one method.  But you are right, that doesn't mean we shouldn't attempt to develop both ways.  In fact, we probably all ought to. 

Again, I apologize for my previous post.  It wasn't well thought out.  (and certainly not a good way to introduce myself to the forum!)

[Bob]

It's whatever you do that's not using the instrument.  Could be and air instrument.  Could be studying the score, hearing things in your head.

[db05]

It's whatever you do that's not using the instrument.  Could be and air instrument.  Could be studying the score, hearing things in your head.

or perhaps it starts from there, and not everyone gets to reach the high tabletop-piano levels of MP.

[iroveashe]

and not everyone gets to reach the high tabletop-piano levels of MP.

There's only one way to find out.

[db05]

There's only one way to find out.

A census!

[bestpianosoftware]

Mental practice, huh?  Can I  do this in my other tasks?  Can I mentally practice my math as well?  I hope I can.  You may check out websites with tutorials on how to become a better pianist.  You may also refer to piano lesson DVDs and software.       

[birba]

I remember reading excerpts of Chang's book online somewhere, but I can't remember exactly where.  Any help where I can find it?  Here at PS or somewhere else?

[birba]

Found it!  When someone said A=440 is arbitrary, I don't get it.  Maybe the name is arbitrary, but that sound is certainly that sound.  Like green is green or the smell of garlic is not the smell of onion, etc. 

[jgallag]

Found it!  When someone said A=440 is arbitrary, I don't get it.  Maybe the name is arbitrary, but that sound is certainly that sound.  Like green is green or the smell of garlic is not the smell of onion, etc. 

It is arbitrary because there is nothing in nature that demands that A be 440, and, in fact, it wasn't for a good portion of history. It's the same reason why absolute pitch cannot be genetic, though you may be predisposed. Humans cannot possibly evolve to become specially adept at something created by humans. God didn't decide 440 was A, we did. It may have been chosen because it is near the middle (remember pitch is logarithmic) of the human hearing range and allows for ample space on either side for the rest of the pitches, but it still doesn't have to be 440. Ergo, it is essentially arbitrary.

[birba]

I hate to insist in this, but the sound 440 does exist.  Some big birds have it in their "repertoire".  Chimpanzees as well.  They may not hold the sound long but the sound does exist in nature.

[iroveashe]

I hate to insist in this, but the sound 440 does exist.  Some big birds have it in their "repertoire".  Chimpanzees as well.  They may not hold the sound long but the sound does exist in nature.

Of course it exists, no one's questioning that, but if you ask a bird or a chimpanzee they won't say they're singing an A.
What's arbitrary is the choice of that 440 being a middle A in the piano or the 5th fret on the 1st string in a guitar.

[birba]

Right.  The NAME is arbitrary.  I still think, though, that absolute pitch is more than memory.

[iroveashe]

Right.  The NAME is arbitrary.  I still think, though, that absolute pitch is more than memory.

Remembering what frequency is correspondent to what name is more than memory?

[pianogeek_cz]

Let me just add here that we know very little about how memory actually works and what kinds of memory are there. You (almost) certainly "remember" your parents' voices or faces  in a different way than you remember, say, math or a musical piece.

Absolute pitch, I think, comes closer to remembering faces. But then again, we truly have very little idea about it all... Is there a neurologist around here? (Ahem. Sliding off-topic...)