Music Composition

[88keys]

Since we are all into classical music, to some degree, I can't help wondering...

Does anybody here composes his own music?

[frederic]

I  compose
Its fun

[willcowskitz]

Sure.
To "some degree".  

[amee]

Sort of
When I'm in the mood

[Dr._Blow]

Perhaps a more pertinent question regarding musical composition would be this:  what is your criteria for a 'good' musical composition?   Although some subjectivity must enter into this discussion, I think most people can agree on the greateness of certain musical pieces - Beethoven Symphonies (take your pick) for example.  What is it that defines greatness in musical composition - for that matter, what qualities would give a piece a shelf life of more than a few months, or one performance?  I do quite a bit of composing myself, and often ponder this question - i'd be interested in what any of my fellow pianists and musicians out there think.

Dr. Blow

[dinosaurtales]

It's hard to tell what exactly makes for a *good* composition, but I can tell you some people simply have a head for it and some don't.  Take me, for example.  I absolutely SUCK at compositon - garbage comes out.  I ambetter off just playing something on a page.  But my husband, who just learned to read notes a year ago, has dabbled in composition, and for a beginner, blows my mind.  He has multiple themes that intertwine, and climaxes, and everything.  Automatically, right out of the box.  Go figure.  I can't figure out how to change keys gracefully, and he figured that stuff out easy pie.  I think you guys that can do that thing have some natural ability I do not have.  I am jealous!

[willcowskitz]

A good piece of music was not made because of composing, it was a feeling/atmossphere that found its way out of the composer's head via music for others to share. If you sit down and "make" music that doesn't sound wrong but doesn't seem to have a "personality" (soul), its been constructed. If you sit at the piano and press a key and another and it inspires you and this inspiration then guides your finger to the next key, then its music, because it obviously was result of a need to say something.

I'm pretty close am I not?  

When you've composed a piece, listen to it, make someone else play it, search for the interpretation of your liking, analyze it from the 3rd person view. Ask what images it brings to other people's heads. Its always hard to judge oneself.

[88keys]

I agree with Willcowskitz.

A composed piece of music must come from the heart of the composer, not the mind. Yes, knoweldge in music theory can greatly help in refining and improving your creations. But if the music doesn't just "flow" out of you, no amount of music theory will make you a good composer...

[RiskyP]

Certainly, music that carries with it "something" that reminds us of what it is that makes us human,  music which comes from the heart and is meant to be felt by the heart is what we can relate to the most. But I wouldn't go so far as saying that music from the mind should not be.

I am a romantic. I really hate most atonal pieces, since I can't relate to them any experience I have had in my life. It doesn't remind me of anything and it doesn't show me anything new. Yet, a lot of the modern atonal music (it IS music believe it or not) has genius musical ideas in it - a different genius than Liszt, Chopin, Beethoven etc... But it really is quite creative.

[88keys]

No doubt there are ingenious ideas in certain modern pieces. But what good is "ingenious", if you cannot enjoy the music with your ears?

One can enjoy Beethoven or even Debussy without understanding his music. Even though virtually all classical music has ingenious ideas in it, they are not required to enjoy it.

Can a person enjoy a late piece by Schoenberg without understanding the principles it works on? Can anyone appreciate serial music, or otherwise atonal music with their ears alone?

[dinosaurtales]

exactly, 88keys.  I have wondered the same thing about Bach for years.  If I gripe that I don't like something of his, I always hear *but if you study the score and see the complexity and the lines, you'll appreciate it more*.  OK, then, I gather that it's great music if you are in a classroom setting, but maybe sucks to listen to.  Then I would tend to ask *how good is the stuff really?*

[88keys]

But Bach can be enjoyed without understanding the music.

Granted, some pieces by Bach can only be enjoyed after getting used to them (the same is true for Late Beethoven and most impressionist composers). But this "getting used to" need not involve a concious learning of music theory or anything else.

Think of the following as an analogy:

Remember your first sip of beer? Oh, that awful awful taste!

But now when you drink a glass of beer, it doesn't taste like that anymore. Beer simply tastes different for an experienced beer drinker (by "experienced" I  mean anyone who drank more than a few glasses of beer in his entire lifetime).

My point is, one does not need to know  the components of a beer to enjoy a good drink. Acquiring a taste for beer is something that happens naturally, without any concious effort by your part.

The same is true for the music of Debussy and (in some cases) Bach. If you listen to them enough (but not too much), you'll start enjoying it.

This isn't true for atonal music. There you usually need to have a good understanding of the structure of the music in order to appreciate it. This is like telling a person that only if he had known the ingredients used to make a beer, he could enjoy it - pretty rediculous, heh?

I can easily imagine a scenario were people fool themselves into liking a drink just because of the ingredient-list on the can. But this does not mean the drink itself is a good one...

[RiskyP]

So you are saying that music is for entertainment?! I don't think it should be narrowed down to that. The music that you can't enjoy with your ears might still have a purpose, even if it is not obvious. Besides, from a composers standpoint, there is nothing more uninteresting than using the same types of motiffs that have been used before in the past. Creativity shouldn't be sacrificed wholly for entertainment.  

It has to sound good to be entertaining but it doesn't have to sound good to be genius.

BTW, I hate Schoenberg's music!

[88keys]

Of-cours music is not just "for entertainment". But music exists to be heard, and a good piece of music should speak for itself rather than rely on some external theoretical information.

At least, that's the way I see it.

Also, there is no need to sacrifice creativity for pleseant-to-the-ear music. Any noteworthy composer should strive to combine the best of both elements in his works.

[RiskyP]

I agree with you. I still don't understand the motivation for atonal music. Sure it's new and exciting - a whole new set of pencils to draw with. But, it's not like tonal music - which is based on quite simple physical principles of destructive and constructive interference of sound waves - has been exhausted.

Then again, whenever I listen to Bartok's Suite Op. 14 (I am pretty sure this is atonal?) I am always amazed by the creativity... after listening a few times, I was surprised to find that it actually became enjoyable. I don't know anything about the rules upon which atonal music is based, yet I could still enjoy this piece.

[88keys]

I don't know that particular piece by Bartok, but if it is "Op. 14" than it is probably not completely atonal (Op. 14 would be a relatively early work, and I'm not even sure Bartok wrote any true atonal music at all.)

As you said yourself, the concept of atonal music is not bad in itself. But atonality should be used as a tool - a tool of great power, which should be handled with caution. Being atonal all the time, just because it is "different", is not they way to produce good music. And after 50 years of composers walking up this blind alley, it isn't that original anymore either...

[chopiszte]

I used to, now I just improvise, and if I strike upon something I like, simply memorize it.

[Ktari]

As long as we're on the subject of music composition, I'm just wondering, how do you guys compose? Do you start with a melody and then expand, or do you just sit down and start playing? I think I like to just start playing (and I record it) and then go back and pick out parts i like, play with it a bit, etc... just curious ^^

[eddie92099]

I have composed a little, and I used to have lessons in it but I find it quite frustrating as I am playing such great works on the piano. If anyone is interested I posted one of compositions online where it can be played and the music printed, at www.sibeliusmusic.com
Just search for "cordoba".  If you like it, send me an e-mail and let me know,
Ed

[88_keys]

As long as we're on the subject of music composition, I'm just wondering, how do you guys compose? Do you start with a melody and then expand, or do you just sit down and start playing?

"Starting with a melody" is much trickier then you might think.

Unless you are writing a set of variations on an already existing theme, then you don't even start with a melody. You start with absolutely nothing.

Getting this initial "melody" out of nothing is the most difficult part of the composition process. What's worse, the composer have virtually no control over when or where the right theme will pop in his mind. You can go for years without a single idea, and then - bam! - the kernel of a masterpiece appears in your mind our of nowhere. Usually, it happens when you least expect it - I came up with the first theme for my last concerto on the way to the groceries store...

Anyway, once I have a theme (which includes both melody and harmony), the rest comes easily by playing around at the piano. If the piece is long and/or complex, then the entire procedure must be repeated more then once in order to complete the work.

Again, my concerto serves as an ample example of this: I wrote the exposition and the recapitulation of the first movement within a week or so, but went completely blank when trying to write the development. Only a month later did I get an idea for the development section (again, when I least expected it). Once the idea surfaced, it took me only 3 days to complete the development section!

It has been nearly six months, and I'm still waiting for a good idea for the second movement... No luck, so far. I'm telling you, this composing thing is very frustrating.

[eddie92099]

I came up with the first theme for my last concerto on the way to the groceries store...

Prokofiev was known to have a small notebook with him at all times to note his themes when he was away from the piano.
Is there any chance of us seeing or hearing your concerto?
Ed

[88_keys]

Not a very great chance.

I don't feel comfortable posting my music on the web, because people might steal it. So the only way you'll get to hear my music is if it gets performed... and this isn't likely to happen in near future.

That is, unless somebody here has an idea about protecting one's works online... I really would like to post my music on the interent, as long as it is safe.

[piano_vs_science]