Glissando Wars

[thalbergmad]

I have been messing around with this today, but not sure exactly how to play the 2 glissandi.

What exactly am i supposed to do here and how do i do it?

Sorry if this is basic, but i am pretty useless at theory and worse at sight reading.

Thal

[retrouvailles]

What piece is that from? I might be able to help if I know the piece because I'll know the context, and possibly have a reference recording. I can only guess what it means right now.

[thalbergmad]

It is a huge concerto by Maliszewski who was a pupil of Rimsky Korsakov and teacher of Lutoslawski. Late 19th century idiom as far as i can gather and unrecorded i think.

I know it is beyond my powers, but i do like to play through things.

Thal

[retrouvailles]

I have seen glissandi like that in 20th century music and it usually means that the gliss is supposed to be done on approximate pitches, starting and ending on no specific note, while the left hand plays the indicated notes. For example, I would start the first gliss on the D above middle C and end on the chord in the next measure. I would do something similar for the next one.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

It seems there's more than a few allusions to whole-tone scales in the score sample, so perhaps the gliss is a whole-tone gliss? eg right hand b, lh gliss c# d#, rh gliss f g a b, etc.

[retrouvailles]

It seems there's more than a few allusions to whole-tone scales in the score sample, so perhaps the gliss is a whole-tone gliss? eg right hand b, lh gliss c# d#, rh gliss f g a b, etc.

That wouldn't really make much notational sense. I've seen whole tone glisses always written out completely in cue sized notation. On the other hand, it doesn't really matter that much, musically, I don't think, in terms of its exact execution. It is just a gesture and will not ever be more than that.

Interesting tidbit about Maliszewski: he was Witold Lutosławski's teacher. One can perhaps hear some of Maliszewski in Lutosławski's early works, like the piano sonata, which alludes to many other contemporaneous composers.

[perfect_pitch]

I have seen glissandi like that in 20th century music and it usually means that the gliss is supposed to be done on approximate pitches, starting and ending on no specific note, while the left hand plays the indicated notes. For example, I would start the first gliss on the D above middle C and end on the chord in the next measure.

Actually - you start the first glissando on the D BELOW middle C... the glissando line starts above the D in the LH (in the bass clef)

Retrovailles is right however about the glissando NOT being a whole tone. HOWEVER since the chords being played under it are played while the glissando runs up, it gives the listener the 'impression' of it being a whole tone glissando. (Because you have the C, D, E, in the gliss and the F#, G#, A# in the LH being played - thus making your whole tone.)

All you have to do then while the RH is playing the glissando is play the other notes as you run up.... take your time... the same sort of concept can be seen in Gershwins Rhapsody in Blue where you have a glissando in one hand while the other plays notes and chords while you run up.

[retrouvailles]

Actually - you start the first glissando on the D BELOW middle C... the glissando line starts above the D in the LH (in the bass clef)

No, you misunderstood what I was saying. The left hand plays a D below middle C. However, the right hand gliss, which is only an approximate notational rendition so it would appear, would appear to start on the D an octave above that, so the one above middle C. But, like I said, it doesn't really matter in the end. The composer didn't bother giving what notes to start and end the gliss on, so he just wanted it to be nothing more than a gesture. If he gave the notes that it started and ended on, it would have a bit more substance and significance than just a gesture.

[perfect_pitch]

No, you misunderstood what I was saying. The left hand plays a D below middle C. However, the right hand gliss, which is only an approximate notational rendition so it would appear, would appear to start on the D an octave above that, so the one above middle C.

Erm.... no - the 'D' below Middle C is clearly marked with an upward stem indicating that the note  is to be played with the right hand as the start of the glissando... the F#, G#, A# chords are to be played with the left.... over the top of the glissando as you run past them...

The glissando STARTS on the 'D' below Middle 'C' - with the right hand. The composer DID give a clear indication on the note he wishes the gliss to start on...

[retrouvailles]

Erm.... no - the 'D' below Middle C is clearly marked with an upward stem indicating that the note  is to be played with the right hand as the start of the glissando... the F#, G#, A# chords are to be played with the left.... over the top of the glissando as you run past them...

The glissando STARTS on the 'D' below Middle 'C' - with the right hand. The composer DID give a clear indication on the note he wishes the gliss to start on...

I think you're totally misunderstanding me. I see that there is an upward stem for the D and a lower stem for the chords, and that is what baffles me. I am thinking that the chords are just supposed to be played with the left hand while the right hand has a gliss. I think you're just arguing me because of our history of us always arguing about pointless or very unimportant matters, just like this one. And no, it is not clear where the gliss starts. There is no note in parentheses by the glissando line, which would be the standard notation. Oh well. I think my way could be an equally valid interpretation of the notation, and your way could be another equally valid way. Either way, this notation wasn't done very well, and we really can't be sure about anything here. In the end, like I said, it doesn't really matter. It's just a gesture!

[perfect_pitch]

First of all - I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing... I'm not that low. The notation isn't brilliant and technically there isn't really any true standard... there are quite a few standards of notation - what helps is knowing how to interpet different forms of notation, like this piece... but it clearly suggests how to play the music. The first glissando marking CLEARLY sits atop the D in the bass clef.

I am thinking that the chords are just supposed to be played with the left hand while the right hand has a gliss.

Oh - thats interesting - you're thinking that??? Maybe because I stated that in my previous post!!!

the F#, G#, A# chords are to be played with the left.... over the top of the glissando as you run past them...

[retrouvailles]

Oh - thats interesting - you're thinking that??? Maybe because I stated that in my previous post!!!

Again, you are misunderstanding my last post. I am not going to reiterate simply because you aren't getting it. This shows two things: the poor notation, and the limitations of arguing over the internet (if you were here in real life I would show you on a piano the differences between the two possibilities. Oh, and I'd probably slap you in the face.).

[tds]

Oh, and I'd probably slap you in the face.).

yes, too often glissando employs the same movement as slapping movement. i knew retrouvailles was a genius, way before he joined ps.com.

[gyzzzmo]

My gues is youre supposed to make a normal glissando with your right hand, while playing those chords with your left hand. Im not sure if youre even supposed those single notes between, if if theyre just part of notation to indicate where the chords are supposed to be.

[perfect_pitch]

Again, you are misunderstanding my last post. I am not going to reiterate simply because you aren't getting it. This shows two things: the poor notation...

For the love of god... FIRST OF ALL - maybe I'm not getting it - because you suck at explaining it...

and SECOND OF ALL - The notation doesn't suck - you just suck at interpreting it.

And if you're going to go on about the limitations of arguing over the internet... it helps if you have the knowledge to back it up. Please do not pregnant dog any more about the notation being poor... it isn't.

My gues is youre supposed to make a normal glissando with your right hand, while playing those chords with your left hand.

Yes - you're right... I did say that a few posts back.

[retrouvailles]

For the love of god... FIRST OF ALL - maybe I'm not getting it - because you suck at explaining it...

and SECOND OF ALL - The notation doesn't suck - you just suck at interpreting it.

And if you're going to go on about the limitations of arguing over the internet... it helps if you have the knowledge to back it up.

Easy there. No need to get your panties in a knot. I don't need to explain myself to you any further. Good day.

[perfect_pitch]

Easy there. No need to get your panties in a knot. I don't need to explain myself to you any further. Good day.

Your right... You'd probably screw up the explanation anyway if you did.

[thalbergmad]

I have changed the thread title to more accurately reflect the content .

Thanks chaps, but i have given up with this piece now. Too much for me.

Luv

Thal

[tds]

Easy there.

but u sed u'd prolly slap him in d face..

[tds]

I have changed the thread title to more accurately reflect the content .

well dun

[tds]

nuff bout glissy neways...lets go spa!!?

[retrouvailles]

but u sed u'd prolly slap him in d face..

I was being facetious. He, however, was being just plain immature.

Your right.

No, no, no, NO. Your grammar is incorrect. It should be "You're right".

Your right... You'd probably screw up the explanation anyway if you did.

Actually, I wouldn't. I am a fairly eloquent person, as you can see from my previous posts.

[tds]

I was being facetious. He, however, was being just plain immature.

m a non block party but m sure people could make there own overview

[retrouvailles]

m a non block party but m sure people could make there own overview

I can't understand what you are saying.

[tds]

I can't understand what you are saying.

its ok 

[richard black]

OK - the glissando is a straightforward white-note gliss, no funny business. The chords are to be sounded as the gliss hand gets to the indicated single note - so taking the first one as an example, the right hand (I'd use right for it though obviously that's up to the player) starts a 2-octave white-note gliss on the D below middle C. As it starts, the LH plays the three black notes, then plays the next chord of three black notes as the right hand gets to the next D, then the third as the RH gets to the top note of the gliss.

In fact it's incorrect as notated: the chords should have quaver (eighth-note) tails on their stems, but anyway that's the gist.

[perfect_pitch]

I was being facetious. He, however, was being just plain immature.

Oh for fucks sake.

NO! I was not being immature... your original explanation sucked. It wasn't misinterpreted - you just worded it very badly to the point where it was confusing.

And my GOD... I made a slight grammatical error - WHO *** CARES!!! I know the difference, I was just in a rush for work.

Don't you think it's odd that the only person I seem to argue with is you... probably because you are a pretentious prick who seems to think he knows everything.

My only intention was to help Thalbergmad with the playing of the glissandos... You had to turn it into a bloody flame war retrovailles. Thalberg... I do apologise for retalliating at Mr Knowseverything... He rubs me the wrong way and someones got to bump him down a notch into reality...

[thalbergmad]

OK - the glissando is a straightforward white-note gliss, no funny business. The chords are to be sounded as the gliss hand gets to the indicated single note - so taking the first one as an example, the right hand (I'd use right for it though obviously that's up to the player) starts a 2-octave white-note gliss on the D below middle C. As it starts, the LH plays the three black notes, then plays the next chord of three black notes as the right hand gets to the next D, then the third as the RH gets to the top note of the gliss.

Thank you Sir.

I understand now.

Ta

Thal

[tds]

Oh for fucks sake.

NO! I was not being immature... your original explanation sucked. It wasn't misinterpreted - you just worded it very badly to the point where it was confusing.

And my GOD... I made a slight grammatical error - WHO *** CARES!!! I know the difference, I was just in a rush for work.

Don't you think it's odd that the only person I seem to argue with is you... probably because you are a pretentious prick who seems to think he knows everything.

My only intention was to help Thalbergmad with the playing of the glissandos... You had to turn it into a bloody flame war retrovailles. Thalberg... I do apologise for retalliating at Mr Knowseverything... He rubs me the wrong way and someones got to bump him down a notch into reality...

somehow i understand wher ur comin from

[retrouvailles]

Oh for fucks sake.

NO! I was not being immature... your original explanation sucked. It wasn't misinterpreted - you just worded it very badly to the point where it was confusing.

And my GOD... I made a slight grammatical error - WHO *** CARES!!! I know the difference, I was just in a rush for work.

Don't you think it's odd that the only person I seem to argue with is you... probably because you are a pretentious prick who seems to think he knows everything.

My only intention was to help Thalbergmad with the playing of the glissandos... You had to turn it into a bloody flame war retrovailles. Thalberg... I do apologise for retalliating at Mr Knowseverything... He rubs me the wrong way and someones got to bump him down a notch into reality...

Well, that's all just your opinion. The fact of the matter is that I talk the same way to everyone else and you're the only one that turns my arguments into full on flame wars, simply because you are less mature than many other people here. I think many people here would agree with me. I'm not even cursing, and you've lowered yourself to that level.

[perfect_pitch]

First of all retrovailles... see if you can come up with your own reply instead of re-wording mine and trying to use it against me.

Second of all - my last statement was a FACT!!! YOU just got pissy because I corrected your statement about where the glissando started. And if you're too pretentious to admit that you made a mistake... then maybe you can gain the maturity you so need.

It's not my fault we end up having bloody flame wars - Its YOU! And apart from stand up for myself against the likes of you... I usually spend the rest of my time here on the PS website HELPING people. If you don't like being wrong every now and then - don't act like a little jerk and begin yet another flame war when someone corrects you. I can at least admit when I'm wrong.



(And yes - I know the word (Its) in bold writing should be (It's)... I did that just to irk you. And if your goal is to go about correcting peoples grammar - go be an english teacher!

[retrouvailles]

First of all retrovailles... see if you can come up with your own reply instead of re-wording mine and trying to use it against me.

Second of all - my last statement was a FACT!!! YOU just got pissy because I corrected your statement about where the glissando started. And if you're too pretentious to admit that you made a mistake... then maybe you can gain the maturity you so need.

It's not my fault we end up having bloody flame wars - Its YOU! And apart from stand up for myself against the likes of you... I usually spend the rest of my time here on the PS website HELPING people. If you don't like being wrong every now and then - don't act like a little jerk and begin yet another flame war when someone corrects you. I can at least admit when I'm wrong.



(And yes - I know the word (Its) in bold writing should be (It's)... I did that just to irk you. And if your goal is to go about correcting peoples grammar - go be an english teacher!

Oh, you're so cute with your childlike anger. I'm not going to respond to your statements anymore. I stand by what I said, so I won't admit that I am wrong, and I don't need some snot-nosed brat telling me off. I could act immature right back at you (such as by saying that your username is a typo, and it that it should be "perfect_bitch" instead), but I won't because I am not immature. Good day.

[weissenberg2]

Pianostreet is seeming more and more like a kindergarten.

[tds]

kindergarten.

how i miss my kindergarten time! maybe its only me, but i was one hundred times more creative, more care free and plain unassuming. thank you, weissenberg:)

[tds]

perhaps its nils time to lock this thread

[retrouvailles]

Well, I don't think so. Despite all of the arguing, there has not been a consensus as to how the glissandi should be executed in thal's extract. I don't think we will ever know how it really should be done, though.

[perfect_pitch]

I'm not going to respond to your statements anymore.

OH THANK GOD!!! FINALLY - some peace.

I hope Thal hasn't completely given up on the piece however - it does look interesting... Never heard of the composer though.

We have however established how it should be executed. Just like I stated earlier in the thread ... The first glissando starts in the 'D' in the bass clef with the right hand and as you roughly pass the F-A notes in each octave you are to play the F#, G#, A# over the top with your left hand and finish on the chord.

Standard white-note glissando with chords over the top of it.