Worried about automatic habits

[redragon]

I memorize things automatically. I don't know if this is a good thing or not. So far, it hasn't confused me, but i'm worried that it will. Will it?

Another thing that worries me: I'm double-jointed, so my fingers bend the wrong way. It slows me down, but it makes some things easier. Should i try to fight this annoying, yet useful habit?

[mrba1979]

What exactly do you memorize automatically?  Do you put together a whole piece then memorize or are you putting together sections and then practicing them from memory?

Also where are you double jointed in the fingers specifically?  Which joints?

[Bob]

I don't think it's a bad thing.  And it depends how you memorize.  Just be sure to keep pieces in front of you that you read and possibly even drop them if memory is creeping in.

If you're playing the same piece for a few weeks, it's going to start getting memorized.  Be sure to analyze it so you still are aware of what you're playing.  Play through the piece slowly and force yourself to read the music again.

But if you're analzying the piece and memorizing it with understanding of the chords, melody, etc.  I wouldn't be unhappy with that.

[redragon]

I start to memorize easy parts of a song, then eventually I learn the whole song by memory. It just sticks in my head once I play it several times.

The third section of my finger (farthest from body) always bends on the piano. I've been told to hols my hands like 'claws', but I don't realize when i'm doing it most of the time.

[mrba1979]

I start to memorize easy parts of a song, then eventually I learn the whole song by memory. It just sticks in my head once I play it several times.

The third section of my finger (farthest from body) always bends on the piano. I've been told to hols my hands like 'claws', but I don't realize when i'm doing it most of the time.

I have learned many songs that way, and as Bob commented there is nothing fundamentally wrong with this way of learning.  (At least not in my experience).  However within the past two years I have been focusing on sight reading and not learning my pieces through memorization.  Though I do memorize, it is not something I do now until I have learned and can fluently play the entirety of the piece.  I found this has increased my learning speed.  I will say though it is only recently that this is something I have been able to do efficiently.

As for the joints.  If it is the third joint out I would definitely say be careful. Piano injuries are more common than people realize.  I looked through your other posts and you did not mention you had an instructor.  If you do not have one I recommend hiring one.  Learning proper technique is imperative and with a little extra bend in you digits I think there is a bit more propensity for injury.
If you do have an instructor under their guidance you should be O.K.

[Bob]

I met someone once who found it easier to memorize pieces as soon as possible when he started lessons.  So he did that and never really learned how to read music.  That i could see as being a negative.

[mrba1979]

I met someone once who found it easier to memorize pieces as soon as possible when he started lessons.  So he did that and never really learned how to read music.  That i could see as being a negative.

I could read music but the learning process was much slower, and at times when I realized I had memorized a mistake it was harder to fix.  I also could not practice from a specific spot so I had to practice from various starting points.  All in all though I was still able to learn and perform the music so I do not think it is a total waste of time.  What really opened up sight reading for me however was one; to just practice sight reading and two; scales, arpeggios, chord progressions, and exercises.  I also think it was a natural progression.  One day I realized I was just reading music faster and started to focus more down that avenue without worrying about memorizing the music.   

[redragon]

I looked through your other posts and you did not mention you had an instructor.

I have an instructor, but she's not the exactly the greatest at teaching. I mostly learn by myself, but she's helped me with some things, like the pedal. However, my father has given me some tips on my technique that have proven useful and indefinitely important.

[rc]

My thoughts:

memorizing automatically through sheer repetition runs the risk of a trainwreck, where the slightest deviance in performance brings everything to a hault with nowhere to pick it back up.  It takes work, but having a more conscious grasp of the piece in the memory is more secure, and can lead to greater insights into the construction of the piece and ideas for interpretation.

Fingers bending the wrong way sounds like a collapsing joint, if I had to guess I'd say it's at the fingertip.  I don't believe injury is the problem with this, but lack of control.  A firm finger, right to the tip, brings the energy more directly to the key.  As opposed to the collapsing joint which acts like a shock absorber, dissipating the energy.

It's a habit I have to watch out for as well.  But I've always thought that the same effort that can bring us from no habit -> bad habit can also bring us from bad habit -> good habit.

[ramseytheii]

I memorize things automatically. I don't know if this is a good thing or not. So far, it hasn't confused me, but i'm worried that it will. Will it?

Another thing that worries me: I'm double-jointed, so my fingers bend the wrong way. It slows me down, but it makes some things easier. Should i try to fight this annoying, yet useful habit?

Of course it's a good thing.  Well, now it is.  Later you will suffer.  Here is why: those who have automatic, easy memory, will at some point come across a type of music which will not yield to your natural skill.  Or, you will start to rely on your memory, take it for granted, and lose bits and pieces here and there as you learn more and more music.  Then, because you lived so long with an easy memory, you will start to become bitter, and think to yourself, "I should be able to memorize this easily."  You won't immediately respond by finding creative and conscious ways to memorize; you may never figure out how to do that.  But you will certainly suffer. 

Do not be spoiled by natural talents.  Work only to improve them.

Walter Ramsey

[bellywelly]

I memorize things automatically. I don't know if this is a good thing or not. So far, it hasn't confused me, but i'm worried that it will. Will it?

Another thing that worries me: I'm double-jointed, so my fingers bend the wrong way. It slows me down, but it makes some things easier. Should i try to fight this annoying, yet useful habit?

i agree with bob. memorizing is not a bad thing, as long as you're playing with understanding of the peice.

double-jointed are you? bending the wrong way sounds painful to me...
and, when you mentioned your double jointed fingers 'makes some things easier' what do you mean?

[redragon]

I Don't honestly know. It seemed like it makes things easier. Starting at the second measure in the Arabesque by Burgmuller, I can just lay my hands flat and go up.  however, I had been working on this habit for a little while. I halfway broke the habit. It actually doesn't  make things easier.

[sashaco]

How old are you?  (I notice you get tips from your father.)  Most people's hands eventually thicken and their fingers won't bend the way childrens' do.  If you work on correct technique, the muscles will develop and eventually  the finger tips won't arch backward.  If you are into your twenties though, you might have to work very hard to correct this.  As was noted above, the collapse of the finger will act as a shock-absorber, and one that would be fiercely hard to control.  I have certainly heard fine players whose fingertips do this, though, particularly women with very slender hands.

[redragon]

I am thirteen.

Most people's hands eventually thicken and their fingers won't bend the way childrens' do.

I hadn't thought that your fingers would thicken. huh. that's interesting.

I've started improving the way i hold my hands.

[bellywelly]

fingers thickening  i wish mine would...can you do any excerises which help you strengthen your fingers?

[go12_3]

I think that most of my students normally play flat fingered.  And some have to learn to arch their fingers after awhile, and that depends upon the age factor and readiness to do that.  I think that pianists with short fingers don't have the problems with the arched fingers.  My hands are small, with short fingers yet quite strong.  Perhaps, the fingers do strengthen after playing piano for many years.  I didn't have a teacher for very long, I learned in school in a group class, and so I just played what I felt was comfortable.

However, when I was a piano performance major in college, then my teacher watched my 4th fingers because they buckled and so I did the double thirds each day, which is a great finger strengthening exercise(bellywelly is asking about in the previous post). 

best wishes,

go12_3

[bellywelly]

^thirds! of course! 
i must try it out instantly!
actually, it's midnight right now...already

[go12_3]

^thirds! of course! 
i must try it out instantly!
actually, it's midnight right now...already

Yes, do!  I'm sure the 3rds will work!