Una Corda pedal

[Spatula]

Well I think I got a spirit to return to Rach prelude and Fan Impromptu.  The thing for Fantasie Impropmtu is that I have to make my RH "theme" sound soft but I want to make it "sharp" and contrasting.  I'm experimenting with both the sustain and una corda pedals (and also the rach prelude op 23 n 5 legato section)

My RH is always too loud; toning it down would be nice...any help here?  

[f0bul0us]

I think I'm going to have a Bernhard moment here:

"The una corda pedal on fortepianos"
The "soft" pedal actually does two things, besides softening the sound it also changes the colour of sound. The reason why it's the "soft" pedal is because depressing it shifts the hammers and keyboard (keyboard only on grands) to the right, so that only 1/3 strings are hit. It was first referred to as the Vershiebung (shifting) or una corda (one string) mechanism. The first una corda pedal was operated by a knee lever, then replaced by a pedal near the 1800's. By the late 18th and early 19th century, it was possible to depress the pedal gradually in a way that would shift the mechanism from three strings (tre corda) to two strings (due corde) and then to one string (una corda).

On modern uprights, instead of shifting the keyboard, it moves the hammers closer to the strings. This shorter distance results in less acceleration of the gammer, thereby reducing the force with which it hits the string and consequently, the volume of the tone.

Ok! Now to your post :
Soft pedal markings begin to appear as early as Beethoven's time. Because the soft pedal is a basic component of the piano's possibilities, it should be used whenever the pianist finds its unique sound desirable. Keep in mind that while the soft pedal does help soften the dynamics, its main purpose is to change the colour of  the sound, just as a mute does on a violin or trumpet. The soft pedal can be used at any dynamic level,, not only piano or pianissimo. E.g. in Serenade of the Doll Debussy writes "Il faudra metre la pedale sourde pendant toute la duree de ce morcea, meme aux endroits marques d'un f" (use the soft pedal throughout the piece, even where marked forte.

Pianists should be able to produce a soft sound using only finger technique, you shouldn't automatically apply the soft pedal everytime the music calls for a soft dynamic (like Pollini). BUT! pianists should not revel in the excellence of their dynamic control to the extent that they find it a virtue never to use the soft pedal.  This would deprive their interpretations of an excellent resource! (*COUGH! Ravel).

The soft pedal should only be used:
1. To create a new "colour"
2. To aid in contrast for a subito pp
3. To aid a diminuendo (while being added gradually)
4. To create a resolution (by adding it on the final note, or chord)
5. To create special effects (while playing mezzo forte, forte etc.)

[Spatula]

Is the Una Corda Pedal then necessary called "cheating" if you overkill it?  I'm thinking of the Beethoven PCs especially no 1 in the 1st movement.  I know it'd be so easy for the pianist just to "cheat" instead of practing and honing the skill to aquire that delicate touch instead of being assisted by the pedal.  

Sometimes I see that the sustain pedal is used for "cheating" when the pianist is too lazy to keep the fingers held for the full note value and just wants an easy way out, but this distorts the sound because the sustain pedal holds ALL the notes while pressing and holding the wanted notes down by themselves gives a less mushy and more clear sound.

[f0bul0us]

No, it's not cheating (I defy anybody to disagree) if you don't *** it in the wrong context. The mistake made most of the time isn't so much when to depress it, but how to depress it. Remember your brain now has to control 3 different movements, your eyes, your hands, and both feet. So you can't expect to master its use in a single practice session. It would help a great deal if you played a few parts of your previous repertoire pieces with 3 levels of the una corda. 1. the full depression, 2. half depression, 3. 1/3 depression. Each variation matters, especially in pieces that have long descending or ascending runs with the diminuendo marking.

Good luck!

[pianiststrongbad]

My basic rule is to never really use the middle pedal unless if the page says too, or i need it close to silent.  When shifting the keys the hammer only hits 1 of 3 strings instead of all 3, thus losing sound quality in the process.  To me, it doesn't really have a "full sound".  I think if you try keeping a looser wrist while playing you may be able to overcome the difficulty of playing soft.  When I play soft, I generally initiate the attack with my finger and then follow through with the arm, I don't think that really makes sense, it is much easier how to show someone how to do this.  But in the middle section that Rach prelude if you use the middle pedal, besides eliminating the sound quality you will ruin all chance of bringing out the third voice.

[Saturn]

No, it's not cheating (I defy anybody to disagree) if you don't *** it in the wrong context. The mistake made most of the time isn't so much when to depress it, but how to depress it. Remember your brain now has to control 3 different movements, your eyes, your hands, and both feet. So you can't expect to master its use in a single practice session. It would help a great deal if you played a few parts of your previous repertoire pieces with 3 levels of the una corda. 1. the full depression, 2. half depression, 3. 1/3 depression. Each variation matters, especially in pieces that have long descending or ascending runs with the diminuendo marking.

Good luck!

I fail to see how pressing the una corda pedal at different levels would make any real difference.

Now, uprights use a completely diferent kind of una corda pedal, so we'll ignore them.

With modern grands, there's really only two settings for the una corda pedal:
1) Not depressed - all three strings sound
2) Fully depressed - only two strings sound

Any intermediate depressions would likely just make the third string vibrate slightly, which does not produce a very good tone.

- Saturn

[pianiststrongbad]

I have noticed whenever I use the una corda pedal completely, it sounds like there is a carpet in the piano.  It is sorta like listening to someone play while there is a door shut inbetween you two.  I have found this on numerous steinways.

[janice]

I think I'm going to have a Bernhard moment here:

ROFL

Bernie, don't have a cow!  We all love you!  I (we) learn SOOOO much from you!!!