Advanced kids who won't slow down

[shera]

What do you do to get kids to slow down?  And I mean young kids at really advanced levels.  I have a couple of students who learn their pieces quickly and never take the time to go over sections slowly, so they bulldoze through them missing notes, and in general sounding terrible, but I wouldn't say that. 

At the lesson, I have to get them to painstakingly repeat sections slowly, correcting wrong notes, fixing fingering, but they are so used to playing everything fast, and they're young so they don't have the patience to slow down. 

I am trying to balance things out more with giving them imagery to help them appreciate a better sound - I think I haven't done this often enough.  I don't want to seem overly focussed on technique. 

[abj]

Instead of 'imagery' or stories, take time to explain the music itself to them and make them more involved with the workings of it. For instance: modulations, harmonies, melodies, textures, dynamics, the liberties they can and cannot take with the score, &c.

Help them understand that striking the notes is not all that is needed to make the music, that they need to also understand how the piece 'works'.

[quantum]

Try giving them more to think about than just notes.  Ask them to concentrate on touch, tone, articulation, phrase, weight, posture, expression.  Not need be all at once, just enough to delve into new territory.  If you need more, ask them to do these same things different ways (even if against what the music says) - like a game.  Can you play this section p, f, staccato, marcatto, legato, secco, con pedale, fractional pedalling, with una corda, without una corda.  Ask them what they think of the sounds they make, does the music sound better or worse?  If they have not been paying attention to their playing, ask them to play it again and observe more carefully. 

[perfect_pitch]

Okay - if they're going for exams at some point, remind them of one thing constantly...

If the piano teacher can pick up on a mistake, whether a wrong note, a note not being held long enough, pedalling, whatever - the examiner sure as hell can. You cannot fool him in any way.

Shera - I know how you feel - I've just taken on a Grade 8 piano student who's trying to learn Handels Fugue in f minor in 7 weeks... that's right. I kept pointing out every single mistake they made as they rushed through the piece, getting them to stop and start over and over again until they got it right, then made them practice at half speed with a metronome.

I told him that he HAS TO practice at half speed until the next lesson, and I warned the parents that if they heard him playing fast till the next lesson, then they were to give him a slap across the head (figuratively speaking).

[mcdiddy1]

Anyone who has learned truly advance piece can attest that the hardest thing to is to play slow. If you cannot play slow then you should not be considered an advance player. Playing slow is difficult because even the slightest wrong note sticks out and it takes a large degree of control and ability in the nervous system. Explain to them that playing slow is the first step to being in control.

Give them entirely new pieces so you won't have to spend time correcting bad habits.

Show them how to practice slow from the beginning. You don't want to ignore fast practice though so have them play one measure slow and then gradually speed it up. Show them that they will learn quicker by getting it right from day one then developing problems and spending time to fix them.

Teach them about internal pulse- the heart beat of the music, and subdivide alot especially in the beginning.

Show them how to sink in to the keys with arm weight and create a singing tone with relaxed arm.

[slobone]

Is the problem that they're not playing slow pieces slow enough, or that they make too many mistakes that you think slow practice would correct?

If it's the latter, you need to tell them that accuracy, not speed, is your top priority from now on. Tell them that at every lesson, you want them to be note-perfect on all new sections, but tempo doesn't matter.

You can pretend you're a competition judge and keep a tally of all their mistakes. If they hear "you made 23 mistakes" maybe they'll realize what they're doing.

[go12_3]

Just give your student a choice on whether he wants to play well or mediocre.  It depends upon the age, etc.  Kids are smart and can learn quickly and adapt to what the teacher is instructing.  Let the student go at his own pace and introduce pieces that are easier to learn quickly and some that are more challanging. 

best wishes,

go12_3

[shera]

Thanks for your helpful ideas.  Yes they are preparing for exams.

One of them simply doesn't seem to hear the details he's missing -I'm working with him on clarity, phrasing and clear articulation.  If he finally does something better, I'll say so, and ask if he heard the difference, but he doesn't really.  I need a way to develop his ear for a better sound, so he won't accept a bad sound.  I'm thinking of tape-recording his playing so he can hear it back and judge for himself.

I liked the suggestion of having him play a passage with different types of articulation, so he can decide what sounds better.

I realize I need to open up more dialogue with him to get him to focus on details -he's very quiet.  I think I might need to be more strict, and stern about not concentrating on details.

[amanfang]

Shera, we must have the same student.  Your posts mirror exactly a student I am working with. 

Here are a few things I have done:

1.  Use easier pieces in addition to his harder pieces.  For example, if he is working on a Haydn sonata movement, I also have him learn an easier Clementi sonatina movement.  He conquers those more quickly and with better accuracy.  It is easier for me to work with teaching him to listening in the easier pieces as well - phrasing, shaping, dynamics, balance, etc.  Then hopefully as we do this he will start to see the connection into his harder pieces.

2.  I also have him set his metronome at certain speeds and tell him he MUST practice at this speed X number of times this week. Check it off each time he does it, etc.  We do parts of it in the lesson so I can stop him when he stops listening to the metronome.

3.  This past week, I recorded him "performing" his pieces during his lesson, and then sent the mp3's to his mom's email with instructions to listen to his performance with his score and answer some questions I wrote in his notebook.  Then depending on how he answered he could adjust his practice to focus on those things.

There are other good suggestions here.  Remember too that they are young.  It is harder for them to see the benefit of going slowly and ensuring accuracy.  It's much more fun to play as fast as possible.  He or she will likely figure out that what you say will help them, although it may not be immediately.

[slobone]

When I was a student I had a piece that I thought sounded just fine. My teacher said, you should record it and listen to it.

I don't know if she was being devilish, but when I did that I was appalled! I was making a lot more mistakes than I realized, my tempos were uneven, and all the typical beginner faults. I was so traumatized I dropped the piece and I've never recorded myself again...

[lostinidlewonder]

Sometimes it has to do with the musical maturity of your young students. Often they are not interested to play it in the slow manner as their muscular memory is working on a more rough overall view of the group of notes they play. It is perfectly fine to allow them to work like this so long you give them the skills to clean up what they do wrong when playing faster.

You must not restrict their method of playing a phrase at their uncontrolled speed unless it sounds completely terrible. If it sounds mostly ok then let it slide but point out to them what fails the most and give them the tools to work it out. Do not harass them to practice slow all the time instead work with their strength of learning their music fast, as they get older they will start to care about their sound a lot more.

As you develop the speed of their learning they will then be able to then start focusing on crafting their sound as their mature musically. I find children who work like this need to be able to start their pieces from different places, often these kind of students must play from the start of the piece or section or particular personal place in the score that works for them, they are unable to start from different places asked of from the teacher, this might be an important issue to work through with them and may add to their ability to understand their muscular memory.

[nanabush]

I have some students in high school who are doing some of the more advanced grades (grds 7-8 RCM), and I can't stand when they play fast and sloppy.  It's not even with the young kids - I find with older students, they are too stubborn to slow down; if the metronome marking is 96 (random example), I constantly find them playing higher than that.  I set the metronome to something in the 70's, and it's as if they don't even hear the beat.

It's a pain in the ***, but I can say that I never get sick of saying "slow down" a hundred times in a lesson.  Keep calling them out on it, remind them the speed, use metronomes, and they'll get used to your routine.  [most] of my students will actually slow down if I remind them, but there's still that special group of 2 or 3 who take any information in one ear, and send it out the next.

[ptmidwest]

Good teaching ideas here!

Amanfang, I'm curious;  what sort of questions did you give the student to answer about his recorded performance?

Thanks!

[slobone]

nanabush & others, on reflection I think you really have to nip this in the bud. Don't just yell "slow down", say "stop"! The first time they get way ahead of the metronome, tell them "We're going to fix this today. Choose a metronome speed where you can play the piece without any mistakes, then stick to it all the way through. If we have to go down to 40, that's what we'll do. I'm not interested in how fast you can play, only in how accurate you are. Once you learn how to pay attention while you're playing, we can start going faster."

Tough love.

[nanabush]

That is so harsh, but exactly what I am going to say 

[jgallag]

I agree with lost. It is a maturity issue. I say so, because the student you're describing was me about five or six years ago. So I remember from experience that, whatever you say, the student probably will not slow down. I have a student now with the same problem. He's an eighth grade boy surprisingly reminiscent of myself, or at least from what I've been told by my teachers (even though that was only six years ago I have a hard time remembering). One day, the light bulb will click, and you have to trust that it will.

That said, I have three goals with my teaching, in order of importance:
1) To encourage and develop a love for the piano
2) To provide a technique that will not hurt nor hinder the student
3) To provide them with the skills to learn

Out of the love for the piano will come the desire for something more, and the attention to detail you're looking for. Am I good at achieving these goals yet? Well, I've been teaching for four months now, so not really. But I know this is what my students need. It allows for them to go as far as they want, whether they only decide to learn a few simple pieces to impress their friends, or whether they decide to go to a conservatory.

You say you're teaching young kids. Kids. You know what I find interesting? The concept of discipline. Everyone says we're taught discipline, by our parents, our teachers, but yet I don't believe it. I think discipline actually comes as a result of an awakening, after the realization that what you have so far is not enough...for you. This realization is personal, not a result of teachers' or parents' criticisms. After this realization, I think many people try shortcuts, "get rich schemes", and the like. Some of them never get past this stage, or get lucky, and the rest, out of desperation, try discipline and find that it is useful. Other people resort to discipline at the start. Sometimes this happens early in life, and sometimes later, but I think it is a personal epiphany that sparks discipline.

It's also interesting to think of how dangerous discipline can be. Think of the person who diligently works a day job, working hard and even earning promotions, and waking up to find out that they're still unhappy. Or, more close to home, think about the pianist who practices many hours a day, pressing on to reach performance speed, going over each intimate detail in careful scrutiny, even to the point of fatigue, only to find one day they've got carpal tunnel or tendinitis. My point is not to discourage discipline, but rather to have faith that one day it will come, and instead of worrying about it, focusing on making sure that, when it does come, it won't be misdirected.

Please don't take this an absolute about all people, and please feel free to argue with me. This is my personal experience, but I don't have much. My personal suggestion for the original post? Give the student CDs of professional playing, or playing that you deem to be of a high quality. This doesn't necessarily mean CDs of the masterpieces. No need to overwhelm them with the Waldstein or Chopin's First Ballade. But perhaps by exposing them to a higher quality of playing and gently reminding them that you will teach them what needs to be done to get there will spark that epiphany. Students can't know that they want something they've never encountered before.

Just my thoughts.

[slobone]

jgallag, yes certainly, discipline can be carried to an extreme. But without it, you're not going to get anywhere. And if you have to wait for students to discover its importance on their own, you might have a very long wait.

At any one lesson, there's only so much you can do. You can't turn a student around 180 degrees in one hour. But if you keep nudging them, or pushing, whichever is appropriate, eventually they may get there. Just make sure you're consistent in what you say, and that you go after the worst habits first. But you have to keep after them.