Difficulties with Chopin's c# minor waltz (Op. 64 #2), Pił mosso part

[leye]

Hi,

here's my first question as a "pianostreet newbie". I hope this is ok, and won't sound rude.

First let me introduce myself a little bit: I've been playing piano for some months now, though I first had ordinary keyboard lessons within a group (blame on me). That was some years ago, age 10-13/14, until I (my mother respectively) couldn't afford lessons anymore. From that time on I wasn't playing an isntrument at all, though I still was quite passionate about the piano. Even when I was playing keyboard, I preferred the adapted piano pieces, and I had a better overall improvement than my class mates had. However, we hadn't had any chance to get a piano, neither a digital one.

This changed about 1-2 years ago, after some serious struggle that I had with myself, therapy and so on, my mother bought a digital piano for me. I had some kind of "trigger" that finally made the piano to become an important part of my life. My favorite composer is Chopin, whom dragged me out of misery in some way.

Okay this topic wasn't intended to tell my life story, let me point this out though: I take piano playing very seriously, and if I could I'd play all day long. I've digged through old topics of this board, read many of bernhard's advice and also made my own research about "piano technique" (e.g. Chang's book). However recently I've started to become unhappy with my "technique", that is I think I have to improve the way I tackle the piano. It became obvious for me when I was playing Chopin's c# minor waltz, my favorite piece by the way (although there are many others by now ).

I try to follow as many advices from bernhard and Chang, and I end up playing with these "basic principles":

• I use rotation of my hand to press the keys
• I use circular motions of my forearm or upper arm to move my hand, and
• I use the entire depth of the keys, along with the circular motion.
• Of course I use TO in fast passges.
• My fingers are neither extremely curled nor extremely flat.
• I slant my hand/wrist to form a straight line with the finger and the forearm.
• ... And many other hints that I found here on the board or in books.

However, in the "Pił mosso" part of this waltz, I hardly manage to play fast, accurate, and "fluently", that is eventually my tones sound harsh (if this can happen on a digital piano) or somehow the whole part sounds flawed, unevenly, and so on.

Perhaps one reason might be the fact that I play on a digital one, and I'm aware that I should learn on a "real" piano, yet there's no chance for me to get one sadly. Even though, I just want the part to sound more "legato", more even, soft and beautiful.

Here's what I do so far when I play this part:

• I try to use my upper arm to move my hand, and the finger only play the keys by a rotation of the hand. Although I'm not sure whether I should play many keys in one rotation (that is the 5th finger plays a key, and when the hand pronates, all the other fingers play their key) or if I should always rotate for each key.
• Since the tones are distant from each other, I have to move the hand within 1-2 octaves. This I try with a circular movement of the upper arm, but I'm not sure whether I do this right. If I move the hand with the upper arm, should the angle between forearm and upper arm always be the same?
• Sometimes my hand is stretched to get the fingers ready to play their key. You have to imagine that I try to play the keys very fast, and the fingers should be "in place" to quickly play the key one after another. I don't know if the hand should be stretched in that way all the time ...

The last point describes the way I was practicing this part: using chord attacks. I press as many keys as possible at one time, then try to "roll" or "shake" the hand to get a broken chord. However, it's because of this chord attack that my hand is always stretched, and I don't think it's the right way to play this part of fast notes ... Sooner or later it just doesn't feel right, and the tones sound uneven.

Sometimes I exaggerate and try to keep my hand in its natural position. However playing fast and evenly still is a problem. After all, I wonder if my approach is simply false, and I have to use something completely different. Or I have to improve my "technique", because playing fast still is difficult for me (for instance in other pieces with fast runs like the end of Chopin's Nocturne #2). Is something wrong with the way I use my hand and my arm to play piano?

Big words from a newbie, I wonder if anyone can help me with my problem. I'm particularly curious about what bernhard would say. I know he is gone, but perhaps there's someone who understands him well ...

I'm afraid that I demand too much, however I appreciate all the hints you can tell me. I'd love to hear your opinions.

Respectfully

[sitbon09]

Leye

I thought you may be interested in this piano forum which allows you to post videos for evaluation.  Without seeing you play its impossible to make a helpful diagnostic as what you describe you are doing and what you may actual be doing could be two separate things.  I suggest sourcing a video recorder and positing some footage showing the whole body from head to toe to see what's going on. 

https://maplegroveproductions.com/piano/

Generally with regards to octaves its very important that you are relaxed both before and after stiking the keys.  Depending upon your hand size you hand should only form the right 'shape' for the octaves just before strking the key and then immediately release.  Try drops from high off the keyboard with the hand totally relaxed and even touch your thumb to your first and second fingers when in the air to ensure your releaxed and the hand isn't clenched.  As your hand comes down you prepare and then land using the upper arm to make the next preparation.

Andrew