Martinu

[andhow04]

i just have to rant about this.  I am suppoed to play his trio for flute, cello & piano with two very, very good musicians.  however i cannot stand this kind of music: dry, prickly, square, directionless.  it drives me crazy to practice it, and I can't stand to listen to it!  It is very unprofessional of me i know.  That's why i am ranting here and not in rehearsal!

is there anyone whoa ctually likes music like this?  when I hear it I don't hear anything that suggests to me anything poetic, beautiful, inspiring, or much of anything.  i don't get any images in my mind except of a person just writing down notes on paper because they don't have anything else to do. 

some people may find this hard to believe but i prefer lush atonal music like schoenberg, or delicate atonal music like webern, or even complicated but aurally sensual music like boulez to this kind of drivel.  this shallow, neoclassical and totally uninteresting spouting out of eighth and sixteenth notes in always motor rhthyms which are clever and cutsie and totally stupid, and harmonies that don't go anywhere, don't say anything, and don't even sound that differnet from each other because he uses so many notes like added 2nds and fourths that it is not dissonant, but not specific sounding at all.  Then once in a while he adds a randomly diatonic chord.

i just find myself thinking always, what is the point of this?  this music is not saying anything at all.  it is in the "wrong note" style that seems to just be unpredictable for no reason other than "because."  there's little thought given to piano texture (it's predominantly dry and unmelodic, and the tiny number of lyrical bars are tainted by unpleasant harmonic progressions), the trio texture is uninteresting and irritating, and the whole thing just grates on me.

Well i just had to rant that out.  sorry for all martinu lovers out there!  I hope this is the last piece of his i ever encounter!

 

[pianowolfi]

Lucky you  

I wish I could play this trio but I have cancelled all my chamber music commitments since three years ago due to health problems/priorities and other reasons.

Certainly I would recommend you to give Martinu a second chance. I really *love* the music from him I know so far, I have played a Flute/piano Sonata with a really magical slow mvt.

Aside from that, flute/cello/piano is a wonderful combination anyway

[kitty on the keys]

  WOW!!!!! Are we a little bitter or what? I play in a piano flute, and cello trio. We doing this trio next season. We ALL like the harmonic colors, the rhytms, and contrasts of moods. the second movement is beautiful. Sad to hear that you do not agree--but I would not bash the piece to that extant. To each his own. We are also doing the Kuhlau Trio---talk about alot of extra notes---but there are some nice moments too. We are doing all 3 Haydn flute Trios in March.

Kitty on the Keys

[richard black]

Yeah, I like that trio, but it may not be the best place to start an acquaintance with Martinu. Try his 4th symphony.

[andhow04]

Lucky you  

I wish I could play this trio but I have cancelled all my chamber music commitments since three years ago due to health problems/priorities and other reasons.

Certainly I would recommend you to give Martinu a second chance. I really *love* the music from him I know so far, I have played a Flute/piano Sonata with a really magical slow mvt.

Aside from that, flute/cello/piano is a wonderful combination anyway

thanx for the positive reply.  i agree the combination is interesting and wonderful.  But the music seems to me to be totally devoid of magic!  just when things sound nice for two bars, he puts in some "unpredictable" harmony which like all the other neoclassicl composers sounds like wrong notes on purpose.  one can't really indulge in beautiful things because this music is always restless and tends ever towards the mechanical.  its just my personal opinion.  i like music with more layered emotions, with real climaxes, with opportunities for interpretative flair.  this is just too straightfoward and dry for me!

i tend to have thisr eaction to most neoclassical music like hindemith and some stravinsky, kabalevsky, some shostakovich.  it always seems to be on the surface to me, never going beneath the surface to a deeper level.  and the mechanical side drives me crazy when it doesnt have the variety of a rite of spring, or agon, or the 2nd mvmt of the shostakovich quintet.  those are mechanical pieces but they have layersof emmotions and different kinds of meters, and much more variety.

thanx again for positive reply

[andhow04]

WOW!!!!! Are we a little bitter or what? I play in a piano flute, and cello trio. We doing this trio next season. We ALL like the harmonic colors, the rhytms, and contrasts of moods. the second movement is beautiful. Sad to hear that you do not agree--but I would not bash the piece to that extant. To each his own. We are also doing the Kuhlau Trio---talk about alot of extra notes---but there are some nice moments too. We are doing all 3 Haydn flute Trios in March.

Kitty on the Keys

i think because we have to rehearse it, and i don't feel connected to this piece emotionally at all, and i get frustrated because that's why i play the piano.  so i just had to rant!  sorry if i offended martinu lovers, its jut my personal opinion.

i find the harmonic color very bland, and in the last mvmt when he does thoise chords a major third away it sounds like bad organ improvisation in church.  just saying thats what i hear!  i find the second movement almost beautiful.  every time you think its going to be nice and emotional, he tkes it away and keeps it on the surface.  there's no depth!  there's never a time where i can really enjoy myself, playing it, and connect to differnt emotions and differnt layers of emotions.  its very superficial in my opinion, like a lot of neoclassical musoic.

also those 16th note runsi n the last mvmt is like bad shostakovich, or worse like kabalevsky.  i never liked soviet music to be honest with you!

[furtwaengler]

Andhow04, I am seriously entertained by your Martinu rant. I love the music of Schoenberg, Webern and Boulez as you mention, so I can't fault you there...

Martinu seems to have a tremendous following, and I will admit to liking his concerto for 2 pianos and the trio you mention in disgust. Does its appeal not extend past its bravura? I've never thought of it. I like to see the bow flying and tend to think there's nothing wrong with that, even if it stops there. It excites people...keeps them on the edge of their seats, you know. I could advise you to lighten up and enjoy yourself, but your thoughts are understandable.

Martinu probably contributed the most random, and indeed awful drivel in western civilization when he wrote "La Revue de Cuisine!" Ugh! Horrible piece! At least you're not playing that!  

[retrouvailles]

Martinu probably contributed the most random, and indeed awful drivel in western civilization when he wrote "La Revue de Cuisine!" Ugh! Horrible piece! At least you're not playing that!  

Hey, I love that piece! It is such a barrel of laughs in the most positive way! Then again, this only proves that the composer has succeeded at bringing people at the throats of each other, which I'm sure he would have loved.

[furtwaengler]

Haha, it's like I insulted your couch. La Revue de Cuisine is a barrel of laughs because it is so mindlessly random, but maybe that's the point. It drives me INSANE! 

[lontano]

My experience with Martinu has been acquired in pits & pieces. I've never played his music, and have heard only a few of his major, mostly symphonic works, but in my ignorance, as I listen to the work that is causing such consternation, and never having seen the score, I can't perceive the issues that have you so perplexed.

The piano part sounds rather straight forward in relation to chamber works from the period and style, yet there must be problems that aren't apparent to my ears. It sounds like a decent piece, rather demanding of each performer, yet to my ears, not hard to listen to.

Which leads me to wonder how this work even came up in a short list that includes Webern, Berg, Schoenberg (for reasons I'm not readily comprehending). This work (on one listening) is hardly close to anything I can think of from the 2nd Viennese School.  It's a breezy, entertaining, if not especially profound/memorable (for the general audience) Trio (albeit of an unusual ensemble - but exploration is essential to discovery & understanding new concepts). A case in point: my niece is near the end of a master's degree in clarinet performance, and is exploring repertoire for a great variety of clarinet-(semi)specific ensembles I never knew existed. Which leads me to believe the Martinu Trio is more appreciated (and known) by flautists (and their friends & family) (and possibly cellists ) than pianists.

So good luck with that!  (if it's not too late  )

L.

[retrouvailles]

Haha, it's like I insulted your couch. La Revue de Cuisine is a barrel of laughs because it is so mindlessly random, but maybe that's the point. It drives me INSANE! 

Hey, I happen to love my couch. It's an apt comparison. I wouldn't call it one of his most important works, but I love it like how I love my couch!