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Topic: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank (Read 114554 times)

johnjwong

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Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

on: July 01, 2004, 05:49:46 AM

Can some body please tell me what is the difficulty chart for liszt's pieces? Like La Campanella as being the intermediate level of Liszt. totentanz as being the advance or late intermediate. And so on...

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donjuan

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #1 on: July 01, 2004, 08:27:36 AM

ok, this is going to be tough, but Ill name out as many pieces of Liszt I can think of offhand in the their order of technical difficulty, from easiest to most difficult, IMO.

EASIEST::::
-Later works, like the forgotten Waltzes, or Sombre clouds..etc..
-Nocturne: En Reve
-Selected works from the poetic and religious harmonies, like Andante Lagrimoso, or the song of the child upon awakening..
-The later Hungarian Rhapsodies, 17,18,19
-Consolations
-Liebestraumes
-Un Sospiro
- Three Petrarch Sonnets
- The more difficult works from the poetic and religious harmonies, like Invocation, or Funerailles...
- La leggierezza
-Etude in 12 exercises
- Il Lamento
-Saint Saens transcription for piano - Danse Macabre
-Earlier Hungarian Rhapsodies (1,2,4,6)
-Easier Transcendental etudes (1,3,7,9)
-Fantasy on themes from Beethoven's "Ruins of Athens"
- Fantasy and Fugue on the theme BACH (Piano version)
- Grand Galop Chromatique
-Ab Irato - "The Perfect Etude"
-Totentanz (For piano and orchestra)
- Mephisto Waltz No.1
- "Dante" sonata
- Difficult Transcendental Etudes (2,4,5,6,8,10,11,12)
-Grande Etudes (2,4,5,6,7,8,10,11)
-Totentanz (Solo piano version)
-Grosses Konzertsolo
- Opera Transcriptions Like Reminiscences of Norma, Reminiscences of DonJuan, Waltz from Faust, Eugene Onegin Polonaise
-Wagner Transcription: Tannhauser Overture
-Scherzo and March
-Sonata in B Minor
-Opera Transcriptions like Grand Concert Fantasy from Sonnambula
-Transcription of Berlioz's Symphony Fantastique (horrendously awkward - not made for human hands)
HARDEST

well, Im sure I could add more to the list, but that was all I could think of right now...anyone disagree about my order?
donjuan

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johnjwong

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #2 on: July 01, 2004, 06:24:45 PM

Where does La Campanella and tarantella and Fantasy based on Verdi's "Rigoletto" fits?

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donjuan

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #3 on: July 01, 2004, 07:24:12 PM

I actually played Tarantella. It's difficulty is comparable to Hungarian Rhapsody No.2, so I would put it right after the Saint Saens transcription "Danse Macabre". Tarentella is difficult because it is an intimidating piece to play in front of an audience. I know first hand- I have had some performances that didnt go quite as well as I hoped.

The concert paraphrase on Rigoletto is actually Liszt's easiest Opera Transcription. It is very comfortable for the hands, and is easier than La Leggierezza. Rigoletto can be compared in difficulty to Invocation from the poetic and religious harmonies. You would find Rigoletto easy if you played Un Sospiro beforehand to develop free arpeggios.

La Campanella is a tough piece to position. I would compare it to Grand Galop Chromatique, because you will need light touch, good feel for the chromatic scale, and hell of a lot of guts to play it in public. However, there are parts of La Campanella that are very similar to La Leggierezza, even easier. I would say, the position of La Campanella depends on the pianist and what the pianist finds difficult. My List of Liszt only is what I came up with to compare overall technical difficulty. Emotional difficulty is tough to plot.

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liszmaninopin

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #4 on: July 01, 2004, 07:27:54 PM

I would rate La Campanella up there with the harder transcendentals; based on the score. It seems like it would be very easy to mess up those skips and runs-and the piece sounds awful with even a few mistakes.

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newsgroupeuan

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #5 on: July 01, 2004, 07:59:55 PM

Quote

It seems like it would be very easy to mess up those skips and runs-and the piece sounds awful with even a few mistakes.

Not really

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johnjwong

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #6 on: July 01, 2004, 09:58:30 PM

some people say that the order is like this:

La Campanella
Liebestraumes
Tarantella
Rigoletto

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donjuan

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #7 on: July 01, 2004, 10:25:32 PM

Im not sure if you are listing them from easiest to hardest, or vice versa..but I would consider the liebestraumes the easiest of the pieces you mentioned.

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johnjwong

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #8 on: July 03, 2004, 07:49:53 PM

i mean

Easiest of the 4
La Campanella
Liebestraumes
Tarantella
Rigoletto
Hardest of the 4

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donjuan

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #9 on: July 04, 2004, 04:38:03 AM

You think La Campanella is easier than the Liebestraumes?

I dont know, Liebestraume No.3 is played by almost every Grade 10 student..Whereas, it takes a freak with crazy extraordinary technique to play La Campanella properly.

Tarantella, in my opinion is much harder than Rigoletto- It is much more difficult to control. Rigoletto has some lyrical parts that are easy to sight read even. You dont et any of that in Tarantella, instead you get differing rhythms in the RH and LH throughout the middle section.

But, it would be different for different people, so maybe I should just shut up.
donjuan

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johnjwong

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #10 on: July 04, 2004, 07:45:55 AM

Quote

But, it would be different for different people, so maybe I should just shut up.
donjuan

No, you are very helpful ^^ Thank you very much for your opinion, but Rigoletto should like its very hard, so i think i might want to practise that and Liebestraumes first before getting into harder liszt works like tarantella and totentanz.

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johnjwong

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #11 on: July 04, 2004, 04:54:21 PM

in this website:
https://www.8notes.com/liszt.asp

Rigoletto is actually has full bars for difficulties but la campanella doesn't

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donjuan

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #12 on: July 04, 2004, 08:49:13 PM

Oh My God!!! I cant believe some of those listings!!! Do you mind if I take that link and start a thread asking people if they find the listings ridiculous?

I cant believe Nuages Gris (Sombre Clouds) a full bar, along with Consolation No.5. I thought these pieces were as easy as Liszt gets!
donjuan

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pseudopianist

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #13 on: July 04, 2004, 11:17:04 PM

Quote

in this website:
https://www.8notes.com/liszt.asp

Rigoletto is actually has full bars for difficulties but la campanella doesn't

That site says Un Sospiro is intermediet? Wait... I though it was very advanced? Does this mean I might be able to tackle it?

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Whisky and Messiaen

johnjwong

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #14 on: July 05, 2004, 05:46:23 AM

Quote

That site says Un Sospiro is intermediet? Wait... I though it was very advanced? Does this mean I might be able to tackle it?

I say that site is officially garbage in terms of the difficulties, the website maker just put anything they think that is hard or easy by just listening to the midi. After all, i dont believe the website maker plays piano or has a high degree of musical intelligence.

Looking at the above list, Un sopiro is not that hard...

I have 1 more question, can someone tell me where does chopin's Fantasia Impromptu goes in the list?

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donjuan

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #15 on: July 05, 2004, 07:05:38 AM

Quote

I have 1 more question, can someone tell me where does chopin's Fantasia Impromptu goes in the list?

You cant really compare Chopin to Liszt. The style is quite different, and many people will find Chopin more difficult than Liszt because of the way Chopin often put multiple voices in one hand. However, Fantasy Impromptu is quite commonly played by many students, so it cant be too hard. I cant compare it to any Liszt piece, because it is so different in style.--> Maybe comparable to Il Lamento? Im not sure..
donjuan

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bachmaninov

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #16 on: July 06, 2004, 08:54:45 AM

Wow... you guys underrate the La Campanella... that piece is no cakewalk at all... harder then any of the Hungarian Rhapsodies trust me...

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in_love_with_liszt

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #17 on: July 15, 2004, 03:06:49 AM

errr....i'd say the rhapsodies are harder. The Paganini etudes really aren't bad (well on campenella if you have a weak pinky then I guess...). How many of the rhapsodies have you actually played, huh? Honestly if you're really looking for difficulty and noting more go hug Godowsky or Alkan. Value a piece of music for it's brilliance in ALL fields of musicality, not just technique.

Really, fanstasie impromtu is quite easy to dispell the myths floating around, and much of chopin cannot even compare to Liszt and Rachmaninoff in terms of difficulty and overall musical development except for a few etudes and the last ballade. That one's a toughie, yes because of the multiple voices. Although it's not too difficult, I'll confess I have a soft spot for Chopin's 3rd scherzo.

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wOOt! I have a website now! It's spiffy!

donjuan

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #18 on: July 15, 2004, 03:16:27 AM

I find Chopin so bloody difficult to memorize..

but, Liszt comes naturally...
donjuan

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in_love_with_liszt

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #19 on: July 15, 2004, 03:32:00 AM

Really? I usually only have to play stuff through with the music a few times to memorize it. Although I think that Alkan does not come naturally. Some really awkward stuff there.

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wOOt! I have a website now! It's spiffy!

lisztrachmaninovfan

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Posts: 80

Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #20 on: May 27, 2011, 05:59:21 PM

Quote from: donjuan on July 01, 2004, 08:27:36 AM

ok, this is going to be tough, but Ill name out as many pieces of Liszt I can think of offhand in the their order of technical difficulty, from easiest to most difficult, IMO.

EASIEST::::
-Later works, like the forgotten Waltzes, or Sombre clouds..etc..
-Nocturne: En Reve
-Selected works from the poetic and religious harmonies, like Andante Lagrimoso, or the song of the child upon awakening..
-The later Hungarian Rhapsodies, 17,18,19
-Consolations
-Liebestraumes
-Un Sospiro
- Three Petrarch Sonnets
- The more difficult works from the poetic and religious harmonies, like Invocation, or Funerailles...
- La leggierezza
-Etude in 12 exercises
- Il Lamento
-Saint Saens transcription for piano - Danse Macabre
-Earlier Hungarian Rhapsodies (1,2,4,6)
-Easier Transcendental etudes (1,3,7,9)
-Fantasy on themes from Beethoven's "Ruins of Athens"
- Fantasy and Fugue on the theme BACH (Piano version)
- Grand Galop Chromatique
-Ab Irato - "The Perfect Etude"
-Totentanz (For piano and orchestra)
- Mephisto Waltz No.1
- "Dante" sonata
- Difficult Transcendental Etudes (2,4,5,6,8,10,11,12)
-Grande Etudes (2,4,5,6,7,8,10,11)
-Totentanz (Solo piano version)
-Grosses Konzertsolo
- Opera Transcriptions Like Reminiscences of Norma, Reminiscences of DonJuan, Waltz from Faust, Eugene Onegin Polonaise
-Wagner Transcription: Tannhauser Overture
-Scherzo and March
-Sonata in B Minor
-Opera Transcriptions like Grand Concert Fantasy from Sonnambula
-Transcription of Berlioz's Symphony Fantastique (horrendously awkward - not made for human hands)
HARDEST

well, Im sure I could add more to the list, but that was all I could think of right now...anyone disagree about my order?
donjuan

Sonnambula is a little easier than where you put it...It includes technical difficulties that most pianist should already know if they play Liszt. I think it should go between Wagner transcription and the Scherzo and Marsch...

Also, I think that the Ab Irato should be around where I put the Sonnambula, since they have similar difficulties in some parts. Don Juan and those other transcriptions are much harder than where you put it...Don Juan is sometimes thought to be one of Liszt's hardest, harder than all the other opera transcriptions you have there, including Sonnambula...

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Currently working on:
*Prelude, Op.23 N.4 (Rachmaninoff)
*Prelude & Fugue in F major, WTC II (Bach)
...not fully decided on what else to start (most likely will be a Liszt, Schubert, or Medtner)...

precipitato

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Posts: 69

Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #21 on: October 09, 2011, 08:01:24 AM

i usually disagree with these difficulty rankings, as you would never know the difficulty when you play it. also, along with this list, i do disagree with a lot of things here. by just browsing through it, funerailles is WAY underestimated. though it may not seem that hard, believe it or not, i place it above mephisto waltz. i played it before, the tone and expression are simply a devil to do, despite its technical not that hard (apart from the octaves.) totentanz (orchestral version) easier than mephisto waltz and dante sonata? NO WAY. it is harder than mephisto, but around the same as dante sonata, i played them before. hungarian rhapsodies has been underestimated too, it is not as easy as you think. grand galop chromatique please drag down along with mephisto waltz. transcendental etudes are definitely not that hard! its technical studies (though still need expression.) this list is screwed up i feel. i can see you haven't touched on most of these works, the musicality and tone colour is extremely important. i fear you have fallen victim again to people who think technical is all what liszt is about, but no, his works are immortal and sentimental.
i apologise for being very blunt, but this is my honest opinion. but i must acknowledge your attempt to make such a list of liszt works, though it is unsatisfactory.

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werq34ac

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #22 on: October 11, 2011, 01:11:13 AM

Where would the middle hungarian rhapsodies fall? I love nos. 10-12, 12 is my favorite =D

And i heard that no. 6 is the most difficult hungarian rhapsody, true?

Mephisto Waltz 1 is very far up the list.. it's one of my favorite pieces, hopefully I'll have the maturity (technically and musically) to play it before I graduate high school. Though everyone should give the rest of the mephisto waltzes a listen, great stuff.

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Ravel Jeux D'eau
Brahms 118/2
Liszt Concerto 1
Rachmaninoff/Kreisler Liebesleid

philb

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #23 on: December 24, 2011, 11:17:41 AM

Quote from: werq34ac on October 11, 2011, 01:11:13 AM

Where would the middle hungarian rhapsodies fall? I love nos. 10-12, 12 is my favorite =D

And i heard that no. 6 is the most difficult hungarian rhapsody, true?

Mephisto Waltz 1 is very far up the list.. it's one of my favorite pieces, hopefully I'll have the maturity (technically and musically) to play it before I graduate high school. Though everyone should give the rest of the mephisto waltzes a listen, great stuff.

No. 6 is actually quite easy if you can manage the octaves. The cadenzas aren't too difficult, and the other sections seem to fit the hand very well. 11 Is actually quite manageable as well. Not sure about 10. 12 seems pretty difficult, I haven't looked over it enough to rank it with the others, but I could say it's one of the more difficult ones.
_____________________________________________________________________
Sorry about reviving a dead thread

, but I would like to ask where someone would place Ballade no. 2. Most of it seems manageable, but there are some tricky passages in the middle section and end.

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carpbear

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Posts: 13

Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #24 on: January 01, 2012, 05:59:41 PM

Quote from: donjuan on July 01, 2004, 08:27:36 AM

ok, this is going to be tough, but Ill name out as many pieces of Liszt I can think of offhand in the their order of technical difficulty, from easiest to most difficult, IMO.

EASIEST::::
-Later works, like the forgotten Waltzes, or Sombre clouds..etc..
-Nocturne: En Reve
-Selected works from the poetic and religious harmonies, like Andante Lagrimoso, or the song of the child upon awakening..
-The later Hungarian Rhapsodies, 17,18,19
-Consolations
-Liebestraumes
-Un Sospiro
- Three Petrarch Sonnets
- The more difficult works from the poetic and religious harmonies, like Invocation, or Funerailles...
- La leggierezza
-Etude in 12 exercises
- Il Lamento
-Saint Saens transcription for piano - Danse Macabre
-Earlier Hungarian Rhapsodies (1,2,4,6)
-Easier Transcendental etudes (1,3,7,9)
-Fantasy on themes from Beethoven's "Ruins of Athens"
- Fantasy and Fugue on the theme BACH (Piano version)
- Grand Galop Chromatique
-Ab Irato - "The Perfect Etude"
-Totentanz (For piano and orchestra)
- Mephisto Waltz No.1
- "Dante" sonata
- Difficult Transcendental Etudes (2,4,5,6,8,10,11,12)
-Grande Etudes (2,4,5,6,7,8,10,11)
-Totentanz (Solo piano version)
-Grosses Konzertsolo
- Opera Transcriptions Like Reminiscences of Norma, Reminiscences of DonJuan, Waltz from Faust, Eugene Onegin Polonaise
-Wagner Transcription: Tannhauser Overture
-Scherzo and March
-Sonata in B Minor
-Opera Transcriptions like Grand Concert Fantasy from Sonnambula
-Transcription of Berlioz's Symphony Fantastique (horrendously awkward - not made for human hands)
HARDEST

well, Im sure I could add more to the list, but that was all I could think of right now...anyone disagree about my order?
donjuan

The problem with listing (pardon the pun!) the late piano pieces as "easy" pieces is that while in *some* of these pieces there is a lessening of the technical difficulties, the music is often completely exposed so that a mistake in articulation, phrasing or loudness of a single note can ruin an entire phrase. In this sense, the later pieces of Liszt are every bit as treacherous as the music of Mozart of Satie; or to use the popular phrase, "They're easy enough for beginners, and too difficult for everybody else."

There are also some late pieces which are extremely difficult, technically: Mephisto Waltzes Nos. 2 and 3; Czardas Macabre; Les jeux d'eau a la Ville d'Este and Sursum Corda from the Third Annees de Pelerinage.

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werq34ac

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Posts: 720

Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #25 on: January 02, 2012, 07:59:17 PM

Quote from: carpbear on January 01, 2012, 05:59:41 PM

The problem with listing (pardon the pun!) the late piano pieces as "easy" pieces is that while in *some* of these pieces there is a lessening of the technical difficulties, the music is often completely exposed so that a mistake in articulation, phrasing or loudness of a single note can ruin an entire phrase. In this sense, the later pieces of Liszt are every bit as treacherous as the music of Mozart of Satie; or to use the popular phrase, "They're easy enough for beginners, and too difficult for everybody else."

There are also some late pieces which are extremely difficult, technically: Mephisto Waltzes Nos. 2 and 3; Czardas Macabre; Les jeux d'eau a la Ville d'Este and Sursum Corda from the Third Annees de Pelerinage.

Let me tell you that tone control is an absolute monster with Les jeux d'eau a la Ville d'Este. I tried sight reading, which note-wise was going quite well, and gave up halfway due to my lack of tone control.

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Ravel Jeux D'eau
Brahms 118/2
Liszt Concerto 1
Rachmaninoff/Kreisler Liebesleid

hoohah2

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Posts: 35

Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #26 on: January 02, 2012, 09:18:45 PM

How would you place the Rhapsodie Espagnole, Gnomenreigen and Waldesrauschen?

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ktack

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #27 on: March 19, 2013, 05:03:13 PM

Hi, Where would the SPanish rhapsody fall on this list?

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khantallis123

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Posts: 98

Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #28 on: November 04, 2014, 11:33:53 PM

Rigoletto the easiest? The opera transcriptions that are easier than Rigoleto: Almira; Tarantella; Ernani;
Concert Waltz on Lucia and Pari...
And Rigoletto is BY FAR HARDER THAN ANY OF THE HUNGARIAN RHAPSODIES(maybe not 12, I haven't seen that one). Also, La Campanella is easier. It being easier than La leggiereza ... Laugh out loud. The transcendentals nos 1 2 3 6 7 8 9 10 11 are also easier. Where would Misere fall? I recently "finished" that one, or more specifically quitted it

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dcstudio

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Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #29 on: November 05, 2014, 07:50:37 PM

Quote from: donjuan on July 05, 2004, 07:05:38 AM

,
Fantasy Impromptu is quite commonly played by many students, so it cant be too hard.

that's actually a pretty positive way to look at it

I was so intimidated by that one simply because the music looked so utterly impossible--. You are correct donjuan it's not that hard... to compare it to Liszt I would put it near the Liebestraum... this is only my opinion and I am basing the comparison on how much time it took to learn each piece--technical aspects--and the like.
..also I had been playing for 25+ years when I finally added these pieces to my repertoire.

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https://www.youtube.com/user/dcstudio

nneale

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Posts: 1

Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #30 on: December 15, 2014, 10:00:03 PM

Hi, would anyone know where to rank benediction de dieu dans la solitude? Thanks!

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kypiano

Full Member
Posts: 171

Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #31 on: September 05, 2015, 06:01:19 PM

Quote from: nneale on December 15, 2014, 10:00:03 PM

Hi, would anyone know where to rank benediction de dieu dans la solitude? Thanks!

OMG I LOVE THAT PIECE. I can't play it, though, so I wouldn't know.

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kypiano

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Posts: 171

Re: Liszt's Piece Difficulties Rank

Reply #32 on: September 05, 2015, 06:05:08 PM

Quote from: donjuan on July 04, 2004, 04:38:03 AM

Tarantella, in my opinion is much harder than Rigoletto- It is much more difficult to control. Rigoletto has some lyrical parts that are easy to sight read even. You dont et any of that in Tarantella, instead you get differing rhythms in the RH and LH throughout the middle section.

I would disagree with you. I played Rigoletto recently, and now I'm studying the Tarantella. I think the Tarantella is far easier, and also, a bit more sightreadable than Rigoletto.

But Tarantella is hard to memorize in front of an audience

I performed it 3 times recently, and in each time, I made a (minor) memory slip. I've perfomed Rigoletto 8 times, and I only had a memory slip once.

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