Suffering

[shaybay92]

I've played piano for quite a few years now and did lesson for about 2. I gave up lessons a year ago because I had been getting bad (sometimes severe) pain in my arms and hands. The pain can sometime extend right up into my upper arm/shoulder area. I have tried so hard to ensure that I play with correct hand position, posture etc... I have tried to relax while playing and have read countless guides but I dont know what else to do. I have noticed that my thumbs are double jointed, and bend back when I try and reach an octave or more apart. This means that my hand collapses and I can't reach the notes properly. It is impossible for me to stretch my thumb straight without it going backwards (I dont really understand) but I think this is a big reason for my pain. Also, my pinky finger does not remain curved but the knuckle flattens out (the tip still curves somehow)... I think this is because my pinky is quite weak on both hands but I'm not sure how to change this.

If anyone has any suggestions, possibly techniques for people with double joints? I would really appreciate it. I would hate to give up piano because of something like this. 

[end]

Hi,

do you have a teacher now? Somebody to look at you and see if you're really doing things right? If not, why don't you post a video somewhere, so that people can see your hands/arms?

You could also consider talking to your general physician. Perhaps your pain has nothing to do with the piano. I have severe back problems (have undergone surgery and all) and even when I'm doing everything "right", I'm prone to pain...

It may be your finger issues are a reaction to pain, instead of the pain being a reaction to their positions.

Another thing: when did the pain start? Perhaps you started learning a new piece that's much above your current level, demanding things of your body you're not ready (yet) to do?

Good luck.

[shaybay92]

Pain has been going for about 2 years. I have seen a physiotherapist and he suggested some basic exercises to strengthen my hands/wrists and I also wore a wrist brace for some time. No improvements. Pain resurfaces at any attempt at piano playing. I have been playing some faster pieces that I must say have probably contributed to the pain I am having today. How does playing faster peices encourage this pain however, when do you know when you are ready to play such peices?

I will take up your advice about the videos. I am moving in the next few months to another town so I am not going to get another teacher until after I move. I haven't had a teacher for about a year.

[shaybay92]

Would appreciate any other suggestions from people, if you have any.

[richard black]

Try sitting waaaay lower, so that you are pulling the keys down instead of pushing from above. Most pianists sit far too high and put up with shoulder pain most of their life as a result. Standard piano stools (benches) go down to about 45cm at lowest, but try sitting on something 40cm high. I can't promise it will help as you are obviously an unusual case, but it can't do any harm. It will take a little while to get used to, of course.

[guendola]

It sounds like your hands are completely tense when you are playing and you probably use way too much effort while playing. I guess you need a few weeks of rest to recover your hands, before you can start working on good techniques.

I do know the thumb trouble, I have similar thumbs. When trying to grab intervals beyond octaves, my thumbs had a tendancy to bend outwards and the joint to the hand got very tense. I think this is due to one or several tendons that hold the thumb in place, these need careful stretching. For a while, I was working in a warehouse where I had to carry lots of tin cans that I could barely grab from the top. This was brute-force stretching and it helped because it is passive stretching combined with grabbing. However, at your situation, this method might be dangerous. Anyway, I think it boils down to grabbing while stretching - and better start slowly. Perhaps you know the feeling of a "good stretching". This is where you should always stop, and talk to your doctor first. The trick is to come back to natural movements and this last idea probably works as well for your pinky, except, I have no idea how. this might be related to your hand position, wrist bending and a lot of other factors.

Not sure about "sitting waaaay lower". If your hands bend upwards from the wrist, you are probably sitting too high. A good starting position is when your elbows are just above key level while your shoulders are relaxed. Try moving your fingers and bend the hands to the sides while testing sitting positions. Normally, you can move your fingers and hands best, when the wrists are straight.

[jentennille]

I have the same exact finger issues.  All of my knuckles are double jointed and bend in awkward directions.  Combine this with weak muscles and any proper position is still going to hurt.  You really have to play slow and concentrate on strengthening the fingers (which will take time).  Pain means you are either doing something wrong or are playing way faster than what your strength will allow.  The wrist and arm pain, in my experience, is caused by using the muscles of the arm to supplement the lack of strength in the fingers, thus they tense and never release.  Forcing this can cause problems like tendonitis.

Doctors can help, but another option is to see a clinical sport-injury trained massage therapist.  You can usually find them partnered up with a chiropractor.  They can help with giving you self exercises to do, treat the tendons in the arms, and you will receive way better personalized care.  Some insurances will even cover the cost, otherwise it's usually around 60 bucks an hour.

You can also get a dvd called "Healthy Hands".  It covers all of the different self exercise and self massage techniques possible and was originally designed for musicians.

As most on here will also stress:  find a good teacher.  A teacher who is heavily technique focused.

For strengthening, this is not suggested for piano players, but worked for me as I also was an unusual case:  a GripMaster extra light tension (the yellow one).  This is a finger strengthener for guitar players.  You can get one off of ebay for 3 or 4 bucks.

These are just suggestions based off of the problems that I had which sound similar to yours.  I hope that you find a solution to your pain.

[guendola]

There is one additional phenomenon that I know and that caused pain in my fingers: When playing forcefully, some of my finger joints bent backwards until they were stable again. Doing that too often created lasting pain. And only my thumbs are double-jointed. My teacher told me that these fingers were too weak and that until they get stronger, I should just not play that way. Looks like they are stronger now, it hardly ever happens anymore. But since I was told about that problem, I paid attention to keeping the fingers naturally shaped and I have the impression that it doesn't matter how far you can bend back a finger as long as you can keep a stable arch. It probably depends on the type of hypermobility as well wether or not you can create a stable arch at all - arch meaning the typical by-the-book shape plus real stability, just like an arched church-roof.