Sostenuto Pedal!?

[ivoryplayer4him]

Will someone please tell me what this is used for...maybe i'm not in the right forum but you all know pianos so someone ought to be able to help.  I know what the damper and una corda are used for but i have no idea about sostenuto pedal.  Give me some examples where you've HAD to play it, and then if anyone can, tell me exactly what the point of them are.  PLEASE

[Saturn]

The sostenuto pedal is like the damper pedal, except that rather than sustaining all notes, it is used to sustain specific ones.  To use it, you play the notes that you want sustained, and while holding those notes down, press the sostenuto pedal.  As long as you hold the pedal, the dampers will be raised for just those notes.

Also, have a look at this thread:
https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stud;action=display;num=1088170156;start=3

- Saturn

[xvimbi]

Will someone please tell me what this is used for...maybe i'm not in the right forum but you all know pianos so someone ought to be able to help.  I know what the damper and una corda are used for but i have no idea about sostenuto pedal.  Give me some examples where you've HAD to play it, and then if anyone can, tell me exactly what the point of them are.  PLEASE

Since the piano is a very open instrument, one can figure out these things just by LOOKING what happens with the hammers, dampers, etc. Further clues can be obtained by LISTENING to the sounds that are created when different pedals are depressed and to what extent they are depressed. Luckily, Beethoven's pianos with several pedals never cought on.

[Shagdac]

Ivory.....I'm using the Sostenuto for the first time in a piece I am learning. It IS used to sustain a note that is played...however (please forgive me if I am wrong)...but I was under the impression that the Sostenuto pedal was to sustain a Bass note that was played. For instance, at my lesson yesterday my teacher showed my how it only worked on notes from the bottom up to the D below middle C. No higher.

Also Ivory, though it is found on most grands, baby's ect. it is not necessary on all uprights. There will always be 3 pedals but the Sostenuto on many is just a practice pedal, and will not sustain, but rather "quiet" what you are playing. At my lessons in fact, we are now using a piano with a REAL Sostenuto pedal, so I can really practice with it and see how it works.

Hope this helps.

S

[Axtremus]

1. True Sostenuto is very much as Saturn described. Push a key down, engage the Sostenuto, release the key, and you will hear only that one note being sustained, and this would go well into the high treble (as high as the dampers go). EXCEPT, I have heard of a couple of models where they managed to designed it such that the sostenuto peddle works independently of the sustain peddle -- this is slightly different from Saturn's description (but I personally would have prefered this kind of design).

2. Some pianos try to immitate sostenuto by building in a middel peddle that sustains the whole bass region, I've seen this called "quasi-sostenuto," but I don't know if this is a proper name for this mechanism. This might be what Shagdac was referring to.

3. Of course, some upright pianos make the middle peddle engage a piece of felt to soften the piano's sound... but this has nothing to do with "Sostenuto."

[xvimbi]

3. Of course, some upright pianos make the middle peddle engage a piece of felt to soften the piano's sound... but this has nothing to do with "Sostenuto."

This is the conundrum. That's why I suggested to find out, by looking and listening, what the "middle" pedal is actually doing on a particular piano. Yet, it is mostly there to sustain just those notes whose keys are depressed when this pedal is depressed. In his book "On piano playing", Gyorgy Sandor has several pages devoted to the "middle" pedal with excellent examples as to when and how to use it and how it works together with the "right" pedal. Highly recommended.

[Motrax]

The one and only time I've ever used the sostenuto pedal (I needed it here) was in the first movement of Rachmaninoff's Cello Sonata in G minor. On the first page, you must hold chords in both hands in the middle two octaves, and then hit single staccatto notes very far apart in the bass and soprano. The only way to make these notes staccatto while holding the chords is by using the middle pedal.

[Shagdac]

That's exactly how I'm using it xvimbi. I play a very loud chord, both hands, depressing the middle and right pedals. Right hand goes on to play quite a long cadenza, while the that bass note is being held the whole time. Then both pedals are raised and lowered at the same time at the beginning of each measure for several lines, sustaining the first bass note of each measure while the treble notes are played with RH.

I'd never used it before, but it truly does make a difference, especially when used in conjunction with right pedal. Funny though, none of the pianos out of all the ones in the entire store...had Sost. pedals that sustained note much higher than the D below middle C. They would make a "slight" difference in the sound, but not actually sustain the bass note.

The book sounds interesting, I think I'll see if they have it at the book store later today. Thanks.

S

[xvimbi]

That's exactly how I'm using it xvimbi. I play a very loud chord, both hands, depressing the middle and right pedals. Right hand goes on to play quite a long cadenza, while the that bass note is being held the whole time. Then both pedals are raised and lowered at the same time at the beginning of each measure for several lines, sustaining the first bass note of each measure while the treble notes are played with RH.

You are quite a pedaler! I always get confused. Have you ever used the "left" and the "middle" pedal together with the "right" pedal? Now that's challenging. I'm sure organ players would be good at it. So, if ever anybody asks if the size of one's feet mattered in piano playing, you can say "yes, it does!".