Does music always have expression?

[Bob]

Or can it be completely unexpressive, emotionless?

I know some styles are aiming for that, but can they actually achieve that?  Or even in those areas, if they write an opera, it's got expression.  I'm not thinking of any operas that lack expression.

[tea cup]

It must depend on the person listening to the music, and their tastes. There are many pieces I find "expressionless". I don't find any expression in Jean Barraqué's piano sonata, for instance. There are some people that find Bach's music expressionless, simply because their ears have never been attuned to that kind of music.

[richard black]

Satie certainly directed performers to be expressionless in at least one piece (can't remember which one).

[iroveashe]

Doesn't expressionless eventually become an expression if you look too much into it?

[njalli]

Music is just expression. A way to express something.

So the answer is no.

--Njall

[thalbergmad]

Or can it be completely unexpressive, emotionless?

Yes, as Schumann clearly demonstrates.

Thal

[ahinton]

Yes, as Schumann clearly demonstrates.

Yawn...

OK, Schumann is not for you, as we all know, but do you really find, for example, Études Symphoniques and the Piano Quintet utterly devoid of expressive content? - and, if so, why and what do you think that the composer gives us in its place?

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Yawn....

Bollox

[ahinton]

Yawn....

Bollox

The fact that your bollox appear (by your own admission) to be yawning (for whatever reason or none) tells us nothing that might lead to an understanding of your answer to the question about Schumann, so over to you (glow-ball yawning, anyone?...)...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Well, Schumann has more appeal to me than E Carter, who's music i have spent a few hours listening to.

One of his "works" sounds like someone having a seizure whilst playing a pinball machine.

Give me Schumann any day over this.

Thal

[ahinton]

Well, Schumann has more appeal to me than E Carter, who's music i have spent a few hours listening to.

One of his "works" sounds like someone having a seizure whilst playing a pinball machine.

And which work is that?

Give me Schumann any day over this.

It is perfectly possible to appreciate some of both composers' works - and perform both as well, as the fine English pianist Nicolas Hodges does.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

And which work is that?

No idea, i deleted it after the first hearing.

[ahinton]

No idea, i deleted it after the first hearing.

Then it sounds to me (and doubtless will also do to some others) that you weren't taking much notice at the time of listening. Still, if Schumann doesn't do it for you and Carter does it less, neither fact means that their music is not expressive!

I've already given you a couple of Schumann recommendations, so here's some for Carter that you might like to try:

Elegy for string quartet (1943)
Piano Sonata (1945-46)
Variations for Orchestra (1955)
Symphonia: Sum Fluxæ Pretium Spei (compl. 1998)

I suspect that you may well find the opening movement of the last of these tough going first time around, but there is an unusually mesmeric, glacial quality to much of the middle (Adagio tenebroso) movement and the delicate gossamer textures and flights of filigree fancy in the finale (Allegro scorrevole) are simply a joy to behold.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Best,

Alistair

Best,

Alistair

Thanks

Thal

Thanks

Thal

[go12_3]

I think expression of music depends upon the artist himself through his technique and style of playing a piece.  We express ourselves through words, art and music.  If we couldn't express ourselves I think emotion would be void. 

best wishes,

go12_3