diagraming fur elise

[breadboy]

i'm just starting to learn fur elise and can pretty much play the beginning till the 24th bar and was wondering if any of you knowledgeable teachers could diagram the song for me (im sure you've done it a zillion times anyway). Anything you guys can offer up would be most helpful and thanks in advance for sharing your time and expertise.

God bless

[monk]

Diagram? ? ? ? ? ? ?

What do you mean? ? ? ? ?

And what is it good for?? ? ? ? ? ?

Best Wishes,
Monk

[breadboy]

What i mean is anything the music doesn't tell you, what parts should be played which way, any tricks the piece needs, pitfalls that would normally be played, but will hurt the piece in the end. Anything that isn't totally obvious that i should know. Keep in mind that i've been playing for a month and most things arn't obvious

God bless

[monk]

Get a teacher.

Otherwise you are in danger to teach yourself wrong things that are perhaps difficult to correct.

You don't sound like one of these folks that can learn autodidactically and understand things instinctively.

Best Wishes,
Monk

[breadboy]

Get a teacher.

Otherwise you are in danger to teach yourself wrong things that are perhaps difficult to correct.

You don't sound like one of these folks that can learn autodidactically and understand things instinctively.

Best Wishes,
Monk

I have a teacher, I just haven't asked her about this piece yet. I really would like some advice on this thought, whatever you can give. As to wether i can understand the piano automatically and instinctively, that remains to be seen, but any advice in that area would help me figure that out

On a related note, i don't get very much time with her and want a version of what to do from the members of this forum who obviously know what they are talking about. I look at some of the members of this forum (i.e. Barhnard) as something of masters of the instrument, something my teacher has yet to prove. I admire that you speak on a higher level, something that my teacher doesn't do yet as she doesn't know the extent of my musical understanding (i don't have enough time to get the point across that i do indeed know what a whole note is and do not need a hold reminder ).

Point is, I really want some advice and i think you guys can give it.

God bless,
Greg

[Hmoll]

Breadboy,

I know you're new to the piano, and I don't mean this in a harsh or negative way, but this forum is here to provide advice and discussion.

No one is here to "diagram," or tell you how to play a piece from the ground up. Do some work yourself on the piece and come back with specific questions if you have them. Look at the music. See if you can tell what key, tempo, time signature the piece is in. Does some material repeat, does it change keys?

In short, don't ask other people to do your work for you. Spend some time at the piano, and the library - or computer. There's tons of stuff written about this piece.

If the thought of working out some of this on your own or with the help of your teacher totally flumoxes you, then you aren't ready to play Fur Elise yet.

You'll come across more serious, and less lazy if you do some of the work yourself.

[monk]

Get a better teacher.

We have two ways of giving you advice:

1) Demonstrating it by playing it for you and you imitate it.
That isn't possible here (although it's the best and most immediate way of teaching).

2) You pose concrete questions about certain problems with the piece, e.g. fingerings, how to use the pedal, dynamics and so on. Only then we can say something useful!
Your wish "Give me advice" is not enough.

And seriously: Get a better teacher.

Best Wishes,
Monk

[Saturn]

I agree with Hmoll.  You have to do the work yourself.  Even if you had the best teacher in the world, he couldn't just sit down and "diagram" all potentially problematic parts of the piece and tell you what is the correct way to handle such parts.  Because all students are different, and spots that may be ridiculously difficult for you may be easy for other students.  And vice-versa.

Music making is largely trial and error (based on hearing).  If what you're doing sounds good, you find a way to do more of it.  If it sounds bad, you find a way to fix it.  In the beginning, you may not be able to tell when it sounds bad or how to fix it, and that's what the purpose of a good teacher is for.

Also, you generally want to do the following whenever possible to help you get an understanding of a piece:

1) Listen to recordings
2) Analyze the piece

Also, read this thread about "bad habits" associated with learning and playing the piano:
https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=teac;action=display;num=1083257509;start=23

- Saturn

[breadboy]

Breadboy,

I know you're new to the piano, and I don't mean this in a harsh or negative way, but this forum is here to provide advice and discussion.

No one is here to "diagram," or tell you how to play a piece from the ground up. Do some work yourself on the piece and come back with specific questions if you have them. Look at the music. See if you can tell what key, tempo, time signature the piece is in. Does some material repeat, does it change keys?

In short, don't ask other people to do your work for you. Spend some time at the piano, and the library - or computer. There's tons of stuff written about this piece.

If the thought of working out some of this on your own or with the help of your teacher totally flumoxes you, then you aren't ready to play Fur Elise yet.

You'll come across more serious, and less lazy if you do some of the work yourself.

1. Hopefully, there are no rules for what will and will not be done in this forum as long as it has something to do with teaching the piano.

2. This is possibly the most requested/played piano piece of all time so I expected that the teachers in this forum could rattle off advice without blinking.

3. This is my first piece so im really trying to learn it perfectly, please respect that and if you have advice to give on what i asked for provide it, but it really isn't helpful for you to call me lazy. I could go to many other sources for the information im looking for, but again, when I see a body of teachers congregating it's difficult to restrain myself from asking questions to those who hopefully know the most.

4. I am not flummoxed, perplexed, befuddled, bewildered or discombobulated... yet I'm just looking for advice from those in a position to provide it.

God bless

[breadboy]

You guys are making this far too complicated. I don't want a doctoral thesis, just a few words on what i should and should not do while playing this piece

God bless

[bernhard]

You guys are making this far too complicated. I don't want a doctoral thesis, just a few words on what i should and should not do while playing this piece

God bless

I will keep it simple.

You should play the right notes at the right time. If you do that the piece will pretty much  play itself.

You should not play the wrong notes at the wrong time.



I hate this piece. Why does every beginner want to play it?

Ok. I had my bit of fun. Now have a look here:

https://members.aol.com/cc88m/PianoBook.html

Chang takes you step by step and diagram the whole thing for you.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Hmoll]

1. Hopefully, there are no rules for what will and will not be done in this forum as long as it has something to do with teaching the piano.

2. This is possibly the most requested/played piano piece of all time so I expected that the teachers in this forum could rattle off advice without blinking.

3. This is my first piece so im really trying to learn it perfectly, please respect that and if you have advice to give on what i asked for provide it, but it really isn't helpful for you to call me lazy. I could go to many other sources for the information im looking for, but again, when I see a body of teachers congregating it's difficult to restrain myself from asking questions to those who hopefully know the most.

4. I am not flummoxed, perplexed, befuddled, bewildered or discombobulated... yet I'm just looking for advice from those in a position to provide it.

God bless

There are no rules against what you posted. I am simply saying you should do some work yourself, and come back with specific questions if you have them.

It's not such a big deal. Do some reading and some practicing.

As far as laziness, I'm sorry but asking broad general questons like that with no indication that you have thought out anything about the piece comes across as laziness. That is meant to be helpful in terms of your work ethic, and in order to get better responses here in this forum. You give no indication of what you worked on, and what you need help with, so the conclusion I have, is you did not do very much work, and you want teachers and others here to do it for you.

[DarkWind]

This isn't really a difficult piece, I would suggest trying something different to be more original. I still to this day thank my old teacher, who, when I was a true beginner and asked her if I could play Fur Elise for a recital, she told me it was really common and boring, and other people would play it. She turns out right, and I am set on my path of learning rare or less heard of works. Too bad I had to move . She was a good teacher though .

[dlu]

1. Hopefully, there are no rules for what will and will not be done in this forum as long as it has something to do with teaching the piano.

2. This is possibly the most requested/played piano piece of all time so I expected that the teachers in this forum could rattle off advice without blinking.

3. This is my first piece so im really trying to learn it perfectly, please respect that and if you have advice to give on what i asked for provide it, but it really isn't helpful for you to call me lazy. I could go to many other sources for the information im looking for, but again, when I see a body of teachers congregating it's difficult to restrain myself from asking questions to those who hopefully know the most.

4. I am not flummoxed, perplexed, befuddled, bewildered or discombobulated... yet I'm just looking for advice from those in a position to provide it.

God bless

First of all I don't think this is the most requested piece "off all time." I personally dislike the piece and don't even think Beethoven wrote it...perhaps it was one of his students taking an amateurish first step into composition. And second...we are not all teachers...MOST members are fairly young and would give advice if you had a simple question not a 1,000 part question that would just make us angry and give us the wrong impression of you.
Peace be with you.
DLu

[breadboy]

taken from wikipedia:

"Für Elise" (German: "for Elise") is the popular name of the "Bagatelle in A minor", WoO 59, a famous piece of music for solo piano by Ludwig van Beethoven, written in 1808.

It is not entirely certain who "Elise" was. The most popular theory is that Beethoven originally titled his work "Für Therese", Therese being Therese von Malfatti, the daughter of a Viennese medical doctor, and at the time the focus of Beethoven's attention. When the work was published after Beethoven's death, it is thought that his famously illegible handwriting was misinterpreted as "Für Elise".

The tune is well known and commonly requested of pianists performing in informal settings, usually as "that song that goes deedle-deedle-deedle." Only Linus and Lucy is requested more often (usually as "that Charlie Brown song"). While simple arrangements are commonly played by beginners, the unabridged work requires skill to play.

[reinvent]

Some of these replies sound snobbish to me -
Hasn't anyone ever diagrammed a piece of unknown music before?  It must be unknown to the person who asked.
Why not just listen to the changes in the music?
Get a CD - and listen to it away from the sheet music.
Then get with the sheet music and mark the places where the music makes a distinct change?
Section it - work on one section at a time.
It's going to be a lot easier if you do that.
Write measure numbers down on paper with chords
that correspond
Look for the cadences....which come at a resting place
The worst mistake I can think of is getting nervous
and staying nervous

[DarkWind]

, the unabridged work requires skill to play.

I can't stop laughing...

[Rhys_00]

I can't stop laughing...

Why? ? ?  :-/

[Swan]

Some of these replies sound snobbish to me -

I agree!  Poor kid, he asked as politely as he could for advice - if you didn't want to give it, then don't.  

I have to admit I've ignore this post for a while because Fur Elise played by beginners is the very reason why so many other 'accomplished' pianists don't like it.

I hate this piece.

she told me it was really common and boring,

personally dislike the piece and don't even think Beethoven wrote it...perhaps it was one of his students taking an amateurish first step into composition

, 12:54am, breadboy wrote:, the unabridged work requires skill to play
I can't stop laughing...

Poor Beethoven, just because his piece has been butchered by people who don't know/care what they're doing.
Don't get me wrong, I outwardly CRINGE when I hear deedle-deedle-deedle and really want to throttle the culprit - but not because the piece lacks beauty or appeal, because unfortunately Theme A is accessible to non-piano players who play it in anything but 3/8 and usually foritissimo instead of piano...

ANYWAY!

It's form is AbAcA.
Breadboy, if you've only been playing for a month, then just work on the A for now - that's the popular bit, because despite what some people think, b and c DO take a bit of skill to perform well - more than a month of lesson's worth.

Keep that opening motif soft and steady- don't rush it like it was written as semiquavers.  Play it quitely/gently/slowly and with feeling and it CAN be quite beautiful.

When you enter the second part of theme A, (going into Chord C), use a bit of crescendo to build it up and then decrescendo as you approach all the octave E's - play this part softly with a lot of pedal and you'll get nice sound.  You'll need to practise this small section until you can do it very fluently.  You can even use a bit of ritardando and a pause before you start again.

Whatever your interpretation, LISTEN to what you're creating, becase this part of the piece is supposed to be very beautiful in it's simplicity.

P L E A S E don't play it like a Scott Joplin Rag!