Should I change teacher?

[yamaha]

Hi all  

What do you think?

I have been with my present teacher for 3 and a half years, starting with her when I was preparing for my grade 8.

My previous teacher said that she wasnt able to take me any further after grade 8 (diplomas) and suggested I change.  I was pleased that she was honest enough to admit that she didnt have the time herself to reasearch and prepare an adequate programme of study for me, and that I would be better off with someone else.  

I told my present teacher that I wanted to go further than grade 8 and she said this was no problem.

I am currently preparing for DipABRSM with my new teacher but I really feel like I am going it alone most of the time, and I am starting to get very discouraged, on one occasion I even cried when I left the lesson, and seriously considered giving up piano  

The problem is that she seems like she can't be bothered with me    Most of the time, after I play a piece, she says...............NOTHING!    Absolutely nothing!  She just asks for my next piece and so on.....  No criticism, no praise, nothing!  Is this normal?  On one occassion, a few weeks ago, I played Bach Fugue No 14 in F# min, which is one of my diploma pieces, and after the usual silence, I asked her how it sounded.  She replied "I felt like you could have brought the subject out more somewhere, but I'm not sure which entry of the subject that it was" !!!  

Regarding the lack of praise, I understand that maybe my playing is not worthy of praise but surely she could find something positive to say?  This is really starting to affect my confidence now  

My other problems are relating to her knowledge of the syllabus itself (of which I provided a copy for her)  She doesnt seem to have read it at all!!  The diploma consists of...........  30-40min recital, programme notes, viva voce and quick study.  Until just recently (2 months ago)  she didnt even know that there WAS a quick study and viva voce!!  We have only just (4 weeks ago) starting incorporating sight reading into the lessons and have done no viva voce preparation at all!!
My exam is 3 weeks away.  I am presently working on a list (based upon what I have read on the ABRSM forum) of possible viva voce questions and answers,but I was really hoping that my teacher would be doing this and then firing the questions at me to help me prepare, I didnt expect to have to do it all myself.  

Maybe this is normal for more advanced (I use the term lightly as I dont consider myself to be very advanced) students?  Once you get to a certain level does the teacher take more of a back seat?  I know I am an adult, but I still feel the need for praise and reassurance occasionally.

Please help, your thoughts are appreciated.  Am I just making a fuss?  I feel guilty thinking of leaving as my teacher is a nice person but..........  :-/

[Daniel_piano]

Yes, I would find another teacher
A teacher should be like a friend, his/her class/house like your own home
You should be comfortable in asking wathever question, in doing any sort of comment, in laughing and criticizing

When I do something something wrong my teacher just points it out, asking me to repeat or show me how it should be done
If I'm not able he just says it doesn't matter you need a bitof practice if I'm able he says "way to go"

We decide the pieces to perform together and if we question each other theories or ideas freely

We talk a lot about weather, politics, health, animals, pianist concertos, composers, avantguard garbages and that sort of thing

Just think about what a lesson should be
You're there to learn, you're there to learn spontaneusly in a freely member and you have a mentor who is proud of you when you learn
So it's clearly a talk/ask/praise/correct/discuss lesson not a you're the little student I'm the god teacher and you shoul shut up and just be my slave without making any question
Pytagora used to teach their pupils like they were his own children, in a freely way discussing about any thing and trying to have balance between their desire to learn (that should never burn out) and the need to correct their errors

And for answering your question:
no, a teacher always praise his pupils when they need it and when they deserve it doesn't matter if you're a children, an adult, a beginner or a 11 grade student

And a teacher is interested and busy in trying to prepare you in the best way
This includes: researching books that could help you, attending up-to-date courses, reading the program of your exam and discussing it with you telling you what pieces she believes will givve you some problems and reassuring you about those pieces she is sure you will have no problem with and then suggesting the best way to handle those harder pieces

A good teacher feel sad and responsable when you don't pass an exam or you injury yourself
So, ask what teacher what she would believe if you don't pass your exam .. does she believes it would your fault or her fault

Your fault ? Change teacher !
imho

but always talk !! talk !! talk !! never be shy
Tell her about your doubts, about what you don't like about her, about your feelings ...

Good Luck

[bernhard]

I cannot really comment on your teacher, or how normal it is, since for that I would have to know what normal is. It is certainly not the way I teach. Perhaps other students in the forum could compare what you are describing with their own teacher’s approach.

I would like to suggest that if you feel that you are not properly prepared to do this exam, please do not do it. The diploma exams are a very different proposition than the graded exams. Graded exams have no value whatsoever, so examiners tend to be quite relaxed about it. Most people pass. In fact it is almost impossible not to pass in a graded exam unless you really mess it up. In the past, I enrolled some lazy students in exams, compleltely sure that they would fail, and in this way they would get a lesson. Instead they passed and told me: “See, I did not need to practise a s much as you said after all”

However a Diploma exam is a far more serious affair, since it is a credential that will allow you into the system. Therefore it is really tough and failure rate is very high (around 50 %). What was good for grade 8, will simply not do for DipABRSM. Friends who have taken it (and narrowly passed) were shaken by the experience (especially the viva voce). The sight reading is also quite demanding.

You may have your confidence badly shaken if you are not properly prepared. (Either by a teacher – which does not seem to be happening – or by yourself).

So, even if you were to change teachers at this stage, I doubt that the new teacher would be able to help you with only three weeks to go.

Either drop the exam and do another 6 months/1 year preparation, or do the exam simply as experience, without any thoughts of actually passing (in fact such experience may prove invaluable when you take the exam for good).

And if you do decide to leave your teacher, do not feel guilty. You don’t pay her to be nice, you pay her to teach you the stuff.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Saturn]

I totally agree with Bernhard about the exam.  Don't take it if you're not ready, or if you do, take it only for experience.  Unlike exams in college, you have control over when you take these (ABRSM).  Make use of that fact.  Taking an exam underprepared under time pressure will lead to stress, which can lead to Bad Things.

As far as the teacher, it sounds like the teacher isn't as passionate as you are.  The lack of both praise and criticism and the fact that she didn't seem to have read the syllabus at all seem to prove this.  You don't have to put up with this.

You should talk to your teacher and tell her how you feel about all this.  But if you don't feel comfortable doing that, then there's a serious problem.  The lines of communication should always be open between the student and teacher.  The teacher should do all the talking that is necessary to make things clear, but the student shouldn't feel uncomfortable making his/her concerns known.  If you leave every lesson with doubts and wondering what you were supposed to get out of that lesson, that's a bad sign.

In my experiences, once you start to get these feelings/doubts, they don't really go away.  In the past, I had a teacher I didn't feel very comfortable talking to, and I didn't seem to make much progress with her.  But, I told myself that maybe I was just being too impatient, or too judgmental, and I should give it more time.  So I continued to take lessons from her, for six more months.  But after this, things were no better than before, and I realized I had wasted time and money when I could've switched teachers six months prior.

If a teacher isn't helping you, she's hurting you.  You don't pay a teacher to merely be an audience.  

- Saturn

[belvoce]

Funny, I'm having the same problem. And Saturn, you describe my situation exactly! It hasn't always been that way, but just in the last year, my teacher doesn't hardly comment at all. She doesn't give me any help, advice, criticism, etc. Nothing! She only says "It'll come eventually. You'll figure it out." I'd leave and would wonder what in the world I have to work on. Eight months ago, seriously thought about not taking lessons any more, and I lost all interest in playing.  I felt horrible. But I continued to play and take lessons, and I haven't accomplished anything since. I'm getting a new teacher this fall.

Yamaha, I would find another teacher.

[RappinPhil]

Yeah, I made a post regarding my teacher problem too. I played the first four lines of Raindrop Prelude for him last week (hey, only had 5 days to practice it) because that's just me, I can't hold anything back if I'm very excited about it. It was unpolished, lacked proper accenting of notes, even hit some wrong notes, I know I know, I even told this to him, but what did he say when I played this peiece for him (which was 10000x harder then anything he had assigned to me) Nothing. He just stood there with a kind of mortified look on his face, grumbling somethng about not wanting to correct the errors. Gee, thanks! I practically begged him to offer some praise, critiscm, something! But no. Very discouraging. Ah well, hopelly my talk with him next week will make things better.

[donjuan]

Yamaha, what nationality is your teacher?  If the teacher is Russian or Chinese, getting a compliment isnt easy..I know.  My teacher is Russian and he is VERY GOOD.  But, what I like most about him is his ability to not sugar coat everything.  Sometimes I leave the lesson depressed and yes, I do feel like quitting...but the feeling passes after a nights rest.
donjuan

[yamaha]

Hi everyone  

Thank you all so much for your replies, I really appreciate it  

To answer donjuan, my teacher is English, I am in the UK.

Trouble is, I have been considering this for a while now but there dont seem to be any teachers that take post grade 8 students in my area,and I am scared that I will end up with the someone the same, or even worse!

Belvoce, my teacher does the exact same thing, either says NOTHING at all (which is 95% of the time) or if pressed, says, "you'll get there, keep practicing" etc..  Totally useless comments in my opinion!  Maybe thats why she says nothing most of the time, because she cant think of anything constructive to say!

I will sit the exam, just for experience, I really dont expect to pass.  Thats just it though, I have to presume the worst as I have absolutely no idea how good/bad I am because I never receive any feedback.

At the moment, I feel like the worst pianist ever!  I cant even play properly for my husband    I have never been the most confident performer but I seem to have lost what little confidence I did have  

Anyway, thanks again everyone  

[donjuan]

Sorry you cant find competent teachers in your area.  Too bad you cant track down Bernhard...

[xvimbi]

At the moment, I feel like the worst pianist ever!  I cant even play properly for my husband    I have never been the most confident performer but I seem to have lost what little confidence I did have  

Obviously, you are not learning anything from your teacher, so you should find a new one.

However, I do sense a different, additional problem here. If you get discouraged by somebody who doesn't say anyhting, how do you react if somebody actually criticizes you?

Anybody, who wants to advance in any area needs (among other things):
1. Lots of energy, dedication and initiative
2. A healthy does of "I don't care what you say, I'll go on anyway"
3. A certain amount of disrespect towards teachers

With the last point, I mean that one should not be too concerned about how teachers put things, or even how they teach, in addition to not taking everything for granted that they say. As a pupil, it helps enormously if one is able to "teach oneself" by extracting the good bits from a teacher and discard the bad bits. This requires the pupil to have a good sense of reality and to be able to judge reasonably well how s/he and the teacher are doing. That is the difficult part. But in any case, no teacher, critic, audience should be able to get you to the point where you can't even play for the closest people around you, including yourself! You may have to build up a thicker skin (easier said than done, I know).

So, as long as you learn from a teacher and advance, it must be a good teacher. If you don't learn from a teacher, find a new one, but also ask yourself what you can do to "extract the good bits", and don't let the "bad bits" get to you.

[f0bul0us]

I don't understand how you guys end up with these kinds of teachers. My teacher's downright hilarious, and while classical is the base for my lessons we also do jazz improvisation, duets, and ear training from current "pop" music. I don't do grades, I compete, but no matter how well I think I play a piece, she's very direct when she thinks my interpretations won't "do the trick" in a national competition (and damn it! every suggestion she's made has worked for judges!). She's like a second mom, lol, one that (unfortunately) isn't tone deaf.

Good luck!

[f0bul0us]

OMG! and my lesson's right before her husban finished dinner, so if I've done well (everyweek since he made that fried red snapper ) I get a parting gift on the way home. Muaahahahahahha!

[belvoce]

As I said, it wasn't always this way. She seems to have become preoccupied with other things, and doesn't seem to care about teaching anymore. Several other students of hers feel this way too.

[yamaha]

Sorry you cant find competent teachers in your area.  Too bad you cant track down Bernhard...

Now there's an idea!  

[yamaha]

Obviously, you are not learning anything from your teacher, so you should find a new one.

However, I do sense a different, additional problem here. If you get discouraged by somebody who doesn't say anyhting, how do you react if somebody actually criticizes you?

I can see what you mean, but I am not just looking for praise, criticism is welcome also, any feedback would be good    

Anyway, thanks a lot everyone, you've given me plenty to think about    

Bye for now