Can anyone recommend me a good Keyboard around

[Pianist_To_Be]

The price range of $200-$250?

I have two keyboards...Both Casio's...

But what i'm looking for is a touch sensitive Keyboard, like a real piano.

The harder you strike the key, the louder the note.

Something with alot of tones (Gunshots, pipe organs, harps)

Recommend away!

[Spatula]

The price range of $200-$250?

I have two keyboards...Both Casio's...

But what i'm looking for is a touch sensitive Keyboard, like a real piano.

The harder you strike the key, the louder the note.

Something with alot of tones (Gunshots, pipe organs, harps)

Recommend away!

ahem...you might want to look around this board first.... ahem

[f0bul0us]

An 88-key touch sensitive keyboard for $200-250?


Lmao!

[xvimbi]

An 88-key touch sensitive keyboard for $200-250?

That's like asking "I want a pound of real caviar for $50". There is no such thing. Your best bet is to get a second hand keyboard (I wouldn't recommend getting second hand caviar...).
Check out the Yamaha PSR and DGX series. There are touch-sensitive models, but they may not have 88 keys. They don't feel anything close to a real piano, but they do come with hundreds of voices. That can be a lot of fun. However, the keys may not have standard geometry, i.e. the space between two black keys can vary. In this price range, don't expect any miracles. You need to come up with a priority list to narrow down the selection. Good luck!

[Pianist_To_Be]

How about a Yamaha PSR-293

Anyone ever try one?

I'm fairly new to the piano, even though I've been playing on them everyday of my life.
(with no professional training, which will change soon)

I just need something that'll sound like a Piano, and feel like a piano.

Nothing super, super fancy.

[xvimbi]

How about a Yamaha PSR-293
I just need something that'll sound like a Piano, and feel like a piano.
Nothing super, super fancy.

Something that looks and feels like a piano? That would be a piano!

Have you ever played on a piano? Apparently not. So, immediately go to the closest store or to a friend who has one and try for yourself. Then go to BestBuy (if you are in the US) or to any other store that has the Yamaha PSR-293 or equivalent and compare. You will find that the "sound and feel" of the PSR-293 compared to a real piano is like the singing of a Holsteiner cow to Luciano Pavarotti (well, the sound will be different, for sure, but the feel might be similar)! Just look at this keyboard: the keys are not even equally spaced!

To repeat it again: There is no keyboard that comes close. You need to look for digital (electric) pianos. The digitals that have the slightest hint of a resemblance to a real piano in terms of sound and feel start at about $750, and those don't even have all the functionalities of a real piano (pedaling). You'll get closer at about $1,500.

If you are serious about piano playing, you will really need to consider something more suitable. You will NEVER get the technique required from a keyboard!

[willcowskitz]

My parents promised to sponsor me a piano with price range approximately from $1000-2000 at most. I could had picked a more expensive digital piano but I wanted a cheap acoustic instead, so now I'm a happy owner of a Czech Hösler   (they got away with it for about $900). If you want piano feel and sound, you get a piano, not a keyboard.

[jr11]

The price range of $200-$250?

I have two keyboards...Both Casio's...

But what i'm looking for is a touch sensitive Keyboard, like a real piano.

The harder you strike the key, the louder the note.

Something with alot of tones (Gunshots, pipe organs, harps)

Recommend away!

I think I know what you're looking for, but perhaps you're phrasing your question incorrectly to the wrong group of people.

A piano's action is not only touch sensitive, but weighted as well. To incorporate this feature into an electronic keyboard makes for much more complexity, thus expense. Frankly, if you are not a piano player and do not aspire to be, you will simply find the weighting a hindrance to you. So when you say you are looking for something that's like a real piano, that is what we think you're asking, when in fact you just need something that plays louder the harder you strike the key.

Such an instrument should be in your price range, but be warned they are little more than toys as far as classically trained players are concerned.

[donjuan]

How about a Yamaha PSR-293

https://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,6373,CNTID%253D28143%2526CNTYP%253DPRODUCT,00.html#

lol I really dont want to burst your bubble, but it really looks like a piece of crap!- A toy, really...

Pianist_To_Be, if you cant afford a decent machine to play, I suggest you try learning the Guitar instead- It is MUCH cheaper, and easier to learn, too.

best of luck,
donjuan

[xvimbi]

https://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,6373,CNTID%253D28143%2526CNTYP%253DPRODUCT,00.html#
Pianist_To_Be, if you cant afford a decent machine to play, I suggest you try learning the Guitar instead- It is MUCH cheaper, and easier to learn, too.

Pianist_To_Be, don't listen to this utter nonsense. Perhaps, you have certain financial constraints, but still want to learn the piano. Perhaps, you just don't want to spend more than $250.

In any case, you will need to tell the forum exactly what it is that you are looking for. Do you want to learn how to play a "real" piano through lessons on a "real" piano? If so, you'll need to invest at least $750. If you don't have the money, save it up. It will be well worth it. However, if you just want to doodle around, then go with the PSR. What does your "professional trainer" recommend?

[Shagdac]

I agree with Xvimbi....

It completely depends what you want the piano/keyboard for. Do you aspire to be a true pianist, or do you just want something for fun, to play around on,.....that sort of thing. If you have any friends that play the piano/keyboard, it might be a good idea to discuss it with them as well. If you are going to take piano lessons, I know that some instructors will not take you unless you have a "real" piano to practice on. I have a regular piano and also a Yamaha digital CLP-120. It's great to practice on, but again, nothing compares to a real piano like a real piano. Also, keep in mind, I do not know about YOUR area, however, here if you keep looking in the paper, they have wonderful deals. Sometimes people even run ads like "Piano..Free to good home, You pick up!" Seriously, they are in there several times a month. The music stores around here rent them for $50.00-75.00 USD monthly (approx). This is also a good way to see if it is something you plan to stick with before making a huge investment. If you decide you want to buy, they usually deduct the amount of rental fee you have already paid. If you need something that is portable, that's a whole different story, but discussing with someone who really knows what they are talking about will save you $$$ and time.
Make sure you really shop around before purchasing.

Good luck!
S

[Pianist_To_Be]

Look at my name, of course I love the piano.

And i'd love a REAL one, but I haven't the money for a grand piano or something.

Hell, i'd buy a Piano any day of the year, as long as the sound produced was clear and loud.

Ever since I was in my early toddler years, i have absolutely adored the piano. (16 now)

All i've ever been able to do on the piano, was play what I knew, and it drove me crazy not being able to express the music I heard in my head, or felt like playing at the time.

My interest in the instrument has not diminished, but has grown.

I wanted a keyboard, soley for the purpous of having a piano substitute.

I'm currently working on taking leesons, but they aren't cheap.

And i don't have a Piano to practice at home, so i don't know.

[donjuan]

so sad...
I dont know what to say. You really will not be able to buy a digital suitable for practice and improvement for under 1000 dollars..
so sad..

[alvaro_galvez]

Ok, so heres my two cents.

Ever since I´ve started playing I´ve played on keyboards. I have two of them now (casios both, and unlike a lot of people here who diss casio I like their functions and sound a lot and yes, I know how a real piano sounds) and I´ve made wonderful progress. I didnt get anything irreplaceable nor too expensive mainly because Ive been moving through contries and homes a lot but Ive reached a point were I cant advance anymore because of my faulty technique.
So I finally am in the point of getting an actual piano or leaving the thing altogether, which I wont,  so heres my advice. Go ahead, start out in a keyboard, get the feel of actually playing and not worrying of details that at the start are unimportant (although in the long run they are indispensible for a good pianist).
But know, that if its something you want to take more seriously youre going to HAVE to invest, buying an actual piano, and the sooner the better.

So there you go.  

[Peachy_Keen]

Go ahead, start out in a keyboard, get the feel of actually playing and not worrying of details that at the start are unimportant (although in the long run they are indispensible for a good pianist).
But know, that if its something you want to take more seriously youre going to HAVE to invest, buying an actual piano, and the sooner the better.

My situation starting out was really similar to yours, but I ended up coming to a very different conclusion. I was learning the piano and needed portability, so I practiced with a keyboard. After a few weeks of using the keyboard with its featherlight plastic keys and total lack of tone, I realised exactly how many bad habits I had formed. Once I bought a digital piano, I had to go back and practice a lot of very basic things because the action is so different on a keyboard.

My keyboard is smaller so I use it occasionally, but now that i've had "real" practice my playing is much more efficient. If you're at all like me, i'd say it's even more important that you have to start out with something that feels like a real piano.

I'm not sure if any of that applies to you, if you're looking for a 250$ piano that will do harp and gunshot noises for you, I couldn't help you gauge you need.

[bernhard]

You want a piano (real or digital), but you do not have the money.

Consider these options:

1.      Get the money.

2.      Buy second hand. See if you can get an ex-hire instrument (some shops sell them at a fraction of the price – see next option).

3.      Hire (it usually comes to US$ 10 per week. Can you afford that?). Many places have the following scheme: You hire the piano (brand new) for one year. At the end of the year they will give you the option to buy the piano, and whatever you paid for rent during the year is deducted from the price (a bit like buying by credit).

4.      Offer your services as a piano nanny. Many piano owners sometimes have to travel abroad for a couple of years and do not want their pianos to gather dust, preferring instead that it be played and tuned regularly. Keeping a piano in good conditions for a couple of years is bound to cost something but it will be cheaper then buying a piano, and who knows, you may end up with a Bosendorfer Imperial.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[DarkWind]

Try eBay? Or *** yourself out to a bunch of fat chicks   . No seriously don't try the second one. Anyways, 16 might be a little late to start piano, but then again, Sviatoslav Richter started out real late. Who knows?

[Peach4091]

Pianist_To_Be, if you cant afford a decent machine to play, I suggest you try learning the Guitar instead- It is MUCH cheaper, and easier to learn, too.

Sorry donjuan but I have to take issue with you here.  I being a classical guitarist you might expect that I would not agree with you that the guitar is easier to learn.  I would be very suspect of anyone who attempts to compare 2 different instruments to determine which is easier/harder, more beautiful, or any other such value judgment.  For any technique or difficulty on the piano a guitarist would be able to shoot right back with something related to guitar.  This is not however why I say that the guitar is not easier to learn than piano.  Everyone who approaches the piano will learn different techniques at different speeds, and the same goes for a guitar.  So you could possibly say that for a particular person guitaristic technique comes easier to them than does piano, but that would not lead to the idea that the guitar (or the piano) is inherently easier.

The reason I point this out is because of the nature of the guitar in the classical world right now is not one of utter acceptance.  But there is a great amout that can be gained in what the guitar has to offer to the classical world.  And I believe all that can come from a statement claiming that ther guitar is "easier" to learn, is that it keeps the guitar from a level of acceptance that would be beneficial to the world of guitar as well as the classical world as a whole.

I would be happy to elaborate further if you wish, but I figure that this thread may not be the place for such a discussion.

Peach

[alvaro_galvez]

Sorry donjuan but I have to take issue with you here.  I being a classical guitarist you might expect that I would not agree with you that the guitar is easier to learn.  I would be very suspect of anyone who attempts to compare 2 different instruments to determine which is easier/harder, more beautiful, or any other such value judgment.  For any technique or difficulty on the piano a guitarist would be able to shoot right back with something related to guitar.  This is not however why I say that the guitar is not easier to learn than piano.  Everyone who approaches the piano will learn different techniques at different speeds, and the same goes for a guitar.  So you could possibly say that for a particular person guitaristic technique comes easier to them than does piano, but that would not lead to the idea that the guitar (or the piano) is inherently easier.

The reason I point this out is because of the nature of the guitar in the classical world right now is not one of utter acceptance.  But there is a great amout that can be gained in what the guitar has to offer to the classical world.  And I believe all that can come from a statement claiming that ther guitar is "easier" to learn, is that it keeps the guitar from a level of acceptance that would be beneficial to the world of guitar as well as the classical world as a whole.

I would be happy to elaborate further if you wish, but I figure that this thread may not be the place for such a discussion.

Peach

I may be butting in but I feel my opinion may clarify a few issues.

Yes, you are right, classical guitar is VERY hard to learn, however, I take donjuan´s posture in stating that guitar is cheaper to learn (the instrument is not very expensive compared to a piano) which was only stated as a solution for this this thread´s creator´s economical issues and most definately not as an insult to guitarrists (although it may have come out wrong) .

I dont know if donjuan was referring to classical guitar but as an electric guitar player myself I can state that piano is HARDER to learn that electric guitar.

[Peach4091]

Yes I do agree that the guitar can be cheaper to still have a quality instrument.  But also realize that I myself have spent over 20,000 on guitar purchases and there are many many who spend much more than that towards guitar.

I think you are absolutley right in saying that for you the paino is harder than guitar.  But I would make the comment that this is dependent on what your goals are for guitar and towards piano.  If your goal was to learn something like jazz fingerstyle on a electric guitar is more than a little daunting and your rating of the difficulty of guitar would be higher.

Peach

[alvaro_galvez]

Yes I do agree that the guitar can be cheaper to still have a quality instrument.  But also realize that I myself have spent over 20,000 on guitar purchases and there are many many who spend much more than that towards guitar.

I think you are absolutley right in saying that for you the paino is harder than guitar.  But I would make the comment that this is dependent on what your goals are for guitar and towards piano.  If your goal was to learn something like jazz fingerstyle on a electric guitar is more than a little daunting and your rating of the difficulty of guitar would be higher.

Peach

It all boils down to personal opinion. You are right but put yourself in my case. I have been playing piano for 9 years and it is still hard to master, I was paying guitar solos in 1 year (although that was my goal, you are right, I never really sought out to play classical music in guitar so my opinion is diminishing towards yours) so my opinion will be biased.
Although the same posture can be put on your part so your opinion will be biased as well, so there we go, no definative answer.

A good guitar will cost you 3000+ while a good piano will cost you 30,000+. I do stand firm on the economical issue. In the end a pianist will spend more money.

[Peach4091]

It all boils down to personal opinion.

so there we go, no definative answer.

A good guitar will cost you 3000+ while a good piano will cost you 30,000+. I do stand firm on the economical issue. In the end a pianist will spend more money.

I think we agree on all counts, the opinion is exactaly what I was pointing to.  My reason was that a blanket statement "the guitar is easier" is detrimental to all involved.  Whereas you saying that you found playingf what you wanted to on guitar easier than playing what you wanted to on piano, is an opinion that has little to do with an objective "difficulty" of an instrument.  This was my reason for replying to donjuan.

The money was a sidenote.  And yes I can get a very nice guitar for 3000-5000 (in fact I am), I could also get a very nice piano for 30000-50000.  I would not debate this.  I was simply pointing out that you can send great sums of money with either instrument, or stamp collecting for that matter.

Peach

[donjuan]

boy, I didnt realize I opened up such a touchy subject.  I, myself play the classical guitar and found it much easier to improve and enjoy than the piano.

I recommended pianist_to_be to try the guitar, because YES, it does take a hell of a lot of hard work to get to the high level, but you can have a worthwhile experience learning classical music on the guitar (and a cheap one at that- less than 500$)
IMMEDIATELY,learning chord positions, VERY easy way to have fun making music right away--> not so easy on the piano, it can take decades. , and you cannot have such a great learning experience with a sh1tty toy keyboard.  You can play a great instrument for 3000$, or you can play a great instrument for 30 000$.  or, you can play a sh1tty "instrument" you will get frustrated and tired of REALLY fast, for 299.99!!

So, the possibilities:

1.  buy a practice-decent Classical Guitar for 300-500 $

or...

2. Buy an acoustic upright piano for 4000-5000 $

or...

3. Buy a Grand piano for 14 000 - 30 000 $

or...

4. Waste 300 $ on a sh1tty keyboard

Our friend has already expressed his financial problems, so options 2 and 3 are out!  

and, he wants a worthwhile experience, so option 4 is out!!

Just get the guitar!

donjuan  

[Peach4091]

I am very much aware that guitar when starting out is far more easily affordable in order to get an instrument worth learning on.  And both can blossom into a lifetime pursuit that can be very rewarding.

With you playing guitar I hope you have some idea of the nature of my plea of not subjugating the guitar as an "easier" (which many could read as trivial) instrument.  So I hope you could call my post more of a clarification rather than a disagreement.

Now I am curious however for your experience in guitar (I assume classical).  What sort or repertior do you have?  How much time do you put into guitar as opposed to piano? Do you find much of your finger dexterity transfers between the two instruments, or possibly only the RH or LH?

Peach

[donjuan]

hey peach

I am studying guitar as a school course throughout high school (in other words, I have taken lessons for 3 years).  Although I learn many styles of guitar (Blues, Jazz, Rock, Folk) I specialize in classical- esp. Spanish.  I love pieces like Tarrega's Recuerdos de la Alhambra, or Segovia's Transcription of Albeniz- Suite Espanola- No.5 Asturas. Leyenda.

However, I am not good enough to play these pieces.  I do easier stuff, like the traditional Romanza D'Amour, or Carulli's Waltzes and andantes.

I dont play guitar too often, practicing about 1/10 as hard as at piano, mainly because the callouses I developed in the LH negatively affect my piano playing.  I also need long fingernails to get great definition in the strings, but long fingernails are unacceptable for piano playing.  Additionally, my left wrist hurts after practicing guitar--> probably having to do with keeping it in a fixed position for long periods.  That really sucks for playing piano...

I love the guitar because it is portable, and can be played like a piano- One of the only portable instruments that can play separate voices at once.  

I recommend all piano players to try their hand at the guitar, because it will be easier to learn for them as opposed to someone who has no musical experience.  I found my rhythm and phrasing improved in my piano playing when I took up the guitar.

donjuan

[Snappy Joe]

You want a piano (real or digital), but you do not have the money.

Consider these options:

1.      Get the money.

lmao!, sorry I just had to break in..rolling on the floor...

aah..what's the matter with my behaviour...

It's too sad really, I have the same problem  

[f0bul0us]

https://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,6373,CNTID%253D28143%2526CNTYP%253DPRODUCT,00.html#

lol I really dont want to burst your bubble, but it really looks like a piece of crap!- A toy, really...

Pianist_To_Be, if you cant afford a decent machine to play, I suggest you try learning the Guitar instead- It is MUCH cheaper, and easier to learn, too.

best of luck,
donjuan

Is there such a thing as a solo guitar sonata? Or a guitar etude?

[donjuan]

Is there such a thing as a solo guitar sonata? Or a guitar etude?

Etude, of course.  Sonata- I am sure there is, but I havent really seen it..there are arrangements for the moonlight sonata, but in terms of official music, I dont really know.. Didnt really think guitar composers wrote sonatas.
donjuan

[Peach4091]

Is there such a thing as a solo guitar sonata? Or a guitar etude?

Absolutley, Villa Lobos wrote 12 etudes that are considered by most to be a cornerstone of the repertory.  More currently, Leo Brouwer and Reginald Smith Brindle have written some fantastic modern etudes as well.

Sonatas are all over the place.  Ponce, Torroba, Paganini and many more wrote sonatas for guitar.  Today Michael Tippet, Alberto Ginastera, and Toru Takemitsu, are just a few of the names off the top of my head that have written sonatas specifically for the guitar.

Peach

[bernhard]

And let us not forget:

Francisco Tarrega (1852 – 1909), Miguel Llobet (1878 – 1938), Fernando Sor (1778 – 1839),  Antonio Nava (1775 – 1821),  Dionisio Aguado (1784 – 1849), Manuel de Falla (1886 – 1946), Enrique Granados (1867 – 1916), Joaquin Turina (1882 – 1949), Joaquin Rodrigo (1909 – 1999), Napoleon Coste (1803 – 1886) and Ferdinando Carulli (1770 – 1841).

[DarkWind]

Manuel de Falla is more than worth it for playing the guitar. He music is under rated and incredibly beautiful. Also, lots of Albeniz pieces have been arranged for the guitar.

[Peach4091]

And let us not forget:

Francisco Tarrega (1852 – 1909), Miguel Llobet (1878 – 1938), Fernando Sor (1778 – 1839),  Antonio Nava (1775 – 1821),  Dionisio Aguado (1784 – 1849), Manuel de Falla (1886 – 1946), Enrique Granados (1867 – 1916), Joaquin Turina (1882 – 1949), Joaquin Rodrigo (1909 – 1999), Napoleon Coste (1803 – 1886) and Ferdinando Carulli (1770 – 1841).

Thanks for elaborating for me.  There are many many more composers that are all worth mentioning.

I like the by Carulli, in all fairness though he is know much more as a pedagogue than as a top notch composer.

With respect to the Albeniz from DarkWind, the formerly mentions Asturias was heard by Albeniz on guitar and he said that the music sounded better on guitar than on piano.

Peach