Pedal Problems

[Pete Schoenhals]

I was just looking for some thoughts on the practice of pedaling outside of where the composer has specifically pointed out where to pedal.  For example, in Chopin's 3rd etude, in e major, he has only marked for the pedal to be utilized in a few measures, but I think it is better to use it throughout.  What I mean is, is it more the composer's intention for his piece to sound the nicest, or to be played exactly as it is written?

[oxy60]

Now here is topic that should bring out a lively discussion. Sometimes I wonder whether I'm seeing the composers pedal instructions or an editor. To solve this issue I record the piece both ways (my choice vs the indicated) and listen.

At some point our taste must come into play. It is the ingredient that makes our interpretation unique.

[pianisten1989]

Start out by playing as the composer wrote. I guess Chopin had a greater musical ear than most of us...

[tea cup]

What edition are you reading from?

I've always thought it was like saying "you have to use the pedal here!!! (but how much is up to you)", and for the rest of the measures it is basically up to the taste of the pianist? There are many many measures in my edition (Peters) that do not have a pedal marking, but where it is impossible to play legato without the pedal!

[retrouvailles]

One must also remember that Chopin had a much different piano than us. Also, the pedal markings that are there are not to be taken to be exact, for a number of reasons. For example, there may be editorial decisions. Also, these may be pedal markings that are clarifications, for a pianist may want to instinctively want to pedal one way, but the composer specifically specified something else. The moral of the story here is that one must make their own decisions based on what they think is musically most appropriate. So, basically, I'm just expanding on what tea cup wrote (haha, I didn't read it until a bit into this post).

[ramseytheii]

I was just looking for some thoughts on the practice of pedaling outside of where the composer has specifically pointed out where to pedal.  For example, in Chopin's 3rd etude, in e major, he has only marked for the pedal to be utilized in a few measures, but I think it is better to use it throughout.  What I mean is, is it more the composer's intention for his piece to sound the nicest, or to be played exactly as it is written?

Any piece should be played so that it sounds good.

Rarely can you follow a composer's pedal markings, because rarely do they indicate when to lift the pedal, and almost never do they indicate how far to depress the pedal.  You can easily enough decide which pedal markings are special (like many in Beethoven), and do what you like beyond that.

In fact, I would hazard to say that no pianist follows the pedal markings of any composer before Bartok or Messiaen.  The reason is we are pedaling constantly, so much, in fact, that it would be ridiculous to notate it.  We pedal for acoustic reasons in whatever room we are playing in, we pedal to highlight certain harmonies or certain notes of a melody, and I would guess that most people pedal a piece differently each time they play it.  So there really is no "practice of pedaling outside of where the composer" has marked it; that's just called pedaling!

Walter Ramsey

[richard black]

If a composer of the 19th century marks pedal in, it simply means that they really, reallly advise you to use it there. They are almost certainly assuming that you will use it in lots of other places.

For fully detailed pedal markings, look at scores by Percy Grainger. He went to more trouble than any other I can think of.

For general guidance, see the surprisingly thick book, 'The Pianist's Guide to Pedaling' by Joseph Banowetz.

[ahinton]

For fully detailed pedal markings, look at scores by Percy Grainger. He went to more trouble than any other I can think of.

In terms of consistency of application, perhaps (and, in any case, I suspect that this was part and parcel of the overall level and detail of information he input in his scores, for which one would have to go to something like Schönberg's Suite Op. 25 to find comparable amounts of performance instructions), but Stevenson has run him close on occasion...

For general guidance, see the surprisingly thick book, 'The Pianist's Guide to Pedaling' by Joseph Banowetz.

An absolute must, indeed - although I wish that he'd gone into more detail about the sostenuto pedal and its application (mind you, I don't know what edition you have and whether JB may have revised and expanded it since I was lent a copy years ago by Yonty Solomon).

Best,

Alistair