Seven/7 Repetitions ?

[shingo]

Hi,

I have known of the rule of thumb for playing a section 7 times with no mistakes as a good way of practising a section before reaching the area of diminishing returns. However I was wondering if anyone could link or provide some background information as to the origin of this.

I seem to remember it being a neurological study which found it, I think Bernhard mentioned it in passing. Obviously with only the search term "7 repeats" (or small variations on that) searching for it is proving difficult.

Thanks in advance for any information,.

[Bob]

I heard about it through Bernhard. 

[banana-]

Hi, I'm sure you will find your answer somewhere in this collection of Bernhard's posts, along with a lot of other interesting stuff.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,5767.msg56133.html#msg56133


While I'm at it: "m1469's attempt to index the forum" https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,9159.msg92755.html#msg92755

[shingo]

That's kind of helpful thanks, but I don't really want to wade through the hundreds of posts, it would be like trying to fine a needle in a haystack, even with using ctrl+f.

Perhaps someone else might know.

[Bob]

Here's Bernhard with something about it.
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=16079.msg222411#msg222411

I'm not sure if that's *the* post about it though.

I hope Bernhard's not basing everything off this article he mentions.
Miller, G. A. – “The Magic Number 7 ± 2” American Psychologist, 1956
From 1956?  We haven't learned more since then?    Unless that's the study on how many digits a human can remember, 7, give or take two digits.

Here's some more of the article citation.
Psychological Review. Vol. 63(2), March 1956, pp. 81-97
The magical number seven, plus or minus two: some limits on our capacity for processing information
Miller, George A.
Abstract   A variety of researches are examined from the standpoint of information theory. It is shown that the unaided observer is severely limited in terms of the amount of information he can receive, process, and remember. However, it is shown that by the use of various techniques, e.g., use of several stimulus dimensions, recoding, and various mnemonic devices, this informational bottleneck can be broken.


I've got the article now.  I browsed through it.  I can't tell if it's dealing with anything related to repeating information you want to learn though.  It mentions recoding and breaking the bottleneck of short term memory which I think is still the 7+/- 2 idea.

[Bob]

These are the posts I found.  Bernhard as the poster and repetition as the search word. 

I don't know if the URL will work, but here are the thread titles.


https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?action=search2;params=YWR2YW5jZWR8J3wxfCJ8dXNlcnNwZWN8J3xCZXJuaGFyZHwifGJyZHwnfDEsMiwxNiwzLDE3LDQsMTUsNSw2LDE4LDksMzEsNyw4fCJ8c2hvd19jb21wbGV0ZXwnfHwifHN1YmplY3Rfb25seXwnfHwifHNvcnRfZGlyfCd8ZGVzY3wifHNvcnR8J3xyZWxldmFuY2V8InxzZWFyY2h8J3xyZXBldGl0aW9u;start=30

How big are your hands??
Dear Bernhard
Practicing long pieces
Cortot's rational principles of technique
Pauls Plan to Try It Himself. For Bernhard
Mastering a piece: what does it really mean?
7 repetitions to learn anything
Why do you teach?
For Bernhard: filling some holes
Change or Quit Piano Instructor?
Causes of Hesitations
Scales HT WHY?
Question for Bernhard on piece analysis
PPI?
How long do you practice every day
Chopin A Minor Waltz BI 150
Bernhard's suggested plan( HELP!)
When to introduce metronome?
Mental practice?!
teaching studies ( early-intermediate student)
Does someone know the 30 progressive studies from S. Heller ?
How to make things automatic
playing with repeats
Finishing a piece !
How to practice aim?
Digital pianos
Practise Finger Exercises...how?
how long does it all take?
Staying alert during repetition [Bob project]
Mozarts Fantasy in C minor
Scarlatti K.32 sonata - some doubts
Bach; Inventions and Sinfonias : Another look
How should I play scales and arpeggios?
Questions about Bernhard's approach
"Repeated note-groups"
Book Discussion- Charles Rosin
Metronome Marks
Speaking of Hanon-Are these following exercises actually useful? Check them out!
Scarlatti
technic?
Digging up an old Bernhard post on thirds
Invention no1 fourth trill fingering ?
Any Students out there that Compose?
Question about Bernhard method
Daily exercises

[Bob]

I think these might be the threads.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,3561.msg31700.html

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,4689.msg44184.html

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,4710.msg44538.html

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,4858.msg46087.html

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,3039.msg26525.html

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,4105.msg37603.html

[shingo]

Here's Bernhard with something about it.
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=16079.msg222411#msg222411

I'm not sure if that's *the* post about it though.

I hope Bernhard's not basing everything off this article he mentions.
Miller, G. A. – “The Magic Number 7 ± 2” American Psychologist, 1956
From 1956?  We haven't learned more since then?    Unless that's the study on how many digits a human can remember, 7, give or take two digits.

Wow Bob!

Thank you so much for taking the trouble to find it. That's exactly what I was looking for.

Even the citation too, this is great I will get the article right away.

I was just curious as to the foundation of the 7 repeats thing as I felt I remembered a study being involved. I think it allows me to approach things more quantitatively and thus motivates me. I haven't read the article yet but it is not so much that I think 7 is some magic number, having a cut off point for a section and a small goal completed where you can move on is very nice. It is too easy to keep repeating things and never progress.

So thanks again *off to read*