Fantasie Impromptu,etude op.25no.12 or gnomenreigen-which is the most difficult?

[emma92]

I'm wondering which of the three pieces, fantasie impromptu, etude op.25 no.12-chopin and gnomenreigen-liszt, is the most difficult.
I've almost finished learning fantasie impromptu and I want to learn the other two pieces, so I'm hoping fantasie impromptu is the most difficult so that the other two hopefully won't be too challenging

[orangesodaking]

I'm not familiar with the Liszt, but both Fantasie Impromptu and the Ocean Etude seem to "come" fairly quickly. As far as which is more difficult, the Ocean Etude seems to have just one pattern throughout with some deviation from it here and there, but it seems to be a little tricky on the brain sometimes (for me anyway), whereas the Fantasie Impromptu just flows out 100% naturally and comfortable in the hands (once the notes are down pat).

[slow_concert_pianist]

Chopin Op25. No 12 is most difficult by a galactic mile.

It seems a surprising selection "in context". Do you actually mean the "revolutionary etude" from the earlier set?

If so, the Liszt would be hardest.

[emma92]

Thanks for the replies
No I do mean op.25 no.12(ocean), maybe I'll try the revolutionary etude if I find that one too hard

[lostinidlewonder]

Hardest Chopin etude, then Liszt Concert etude, last fantasie. To attain mastery for lightness and clarity in the Liszt is very tricky, but I think the arpeggios in Chopin can post more endurance and accuracy problems for most pianists technique. The Chopin poses more expression problems (it is easy to fall into the trap of playing the arpeggios with little musical value) than the Liszt but it is hard to keep up the energy of the cheeky nature of the Liszt. I think the Fantasie is the hardest to pull off in performance because it is so damn over played.

[orangesodaking]

Is the Chopin "Ocean" Etude really that difficult? I find the arpeggios in it much easier than the arpeggios in, say, Op. 10 No. 1. You just play the three notes and jump your hand quickly to the next position an octave up. But I have only looked at the score and tried the first few measures, not actually studied it. And for me, it was tricky on the brain.

I still say try it. It's an impressive piece, and it's really beautiful.

[pianisten1989]

I don't really think you can compare them. The Chopin-etude is difficult because it's an etude, and it will take time to learn it. His etudes makes you tired as hell unless you can be totaly relaxed whlie playing it.

The Gnomenreigen is difficult because it's very uncomfortable to play, and everything is to played Leggiero. Some parts are also meant to be played very fast.

Fantasie impromptu has the 3 vs 4, and need a very brillante way of playing.


Have you ever played any Chopin etude before?

[stevebob]

I agree with what's already been said, and don't have much to add to it.

Although I don't have any personal experience with Gnomenreigen, it's generally considered more approachable than the Transcendentals, the Paganinis or the Trois Etudes de Concert (and a suitable entrée to Liszt's etudes for that reason).

I'm aware, too, that there are diverse opinions about the technical challenge of Chopin's 25/12.  It's one of the harder ones for some people, while others apparently find it significantly less formidable.

I concur that F-I is the least demanding of these three pieces (and by a fair margin, I would add).  It would be easier for me to play F-I well than to learn the others even to a lower standard, and that's probably true for many other people as well.

[john11inc]

Er.  I'm going to disagree with everyone here so far and say Gnomenreigen is more difficult than the 25-12 assuming you want to play it as fast as I'm sure all the recordings you have of it are; the writing isn't especially suited to the light, feathery sound you'll be assuredly wanting to get from the piece.  The Fantasie Impromtu is a student piece; it's much easier than the other two.

[ahinton]

Er.  I'm going to disagree with everyone here so far and say Gnomenreigen is more difficult than the 25-12 assuming you want to play it as fast as I'm sure all the recordings you have of it are; the writing isn't especially suited to the light, feathery sound you'll be assuredly wanting to get from the piece.  The Fantasie Impromtu is a student piece; it's much easier than the other two.

I would have thought that what you say here is patently obvious, but clearly it is not to some people, which is why you self-evidently felt the need to say it.

Best,

Alistair

[lostinidlewonder]

Gnomenreigen meh:

8 year olds can play it



Saying that.... 6 year olds can play the ocean.

But to play the emotion of the ocean, no kid can do it.

[nanabush]

The Chopin is probably the most difficult overall, but the climax in Gnomenreigen right before the F#/Gb major w/e it is part, is probably on par.  Gnomenreigen has different difficulties throughout (arpeggios, scales, leggiero playing, etc) but the Ocean etude has DEADLY arpeggios, and about 8 pages worth of those.

So I'd probably say

Ocean Etude
Gnomenreigen




Fantaisie Impromptu (much easier than the other two)

[emma92]

pianisten1989: I've never played an etude before, do you think this is a good one to start with?
lostinidlewonder: wow the 8 year old plays gnomenreigen better than most other people I've seen play it, the 6 year old is briliant but ye, no kid can put the right amount of emotion into it

[john11inc]

pianisten1989: I've never played an etude before, do you think this is a good one to start with?
lostinidlewonder: wow the 8 year old plays gnomenreigen better than most other people I've seen play it, the 6 year old is briliant but ye, no kid can put the right amount of emotion into it

Well, the Chopin Etudes are music just like any other piece.  It doesn't really matter "which one you start with"; you should just choose which one(s) you like.  Although, if you're asking which ones are the easiest, there are plenty of threads on here that answer that question, but just to keep you from having to search for them (because I'm pretty sure "Chopin Etude" is going to come up quite a bit), from Op. 25, Nos. 2, 5, 7 and 9 are definitely easier.  Nos. 3 and 4 are generally considered about the same level of difficulty, if not slightly easier (3 and 4 are the sort that can really mess you up if you have a weakness for what technique they're based on much more than 2/5/7/9).  Really, from the Op. 25, Nos. 1, 6, 10 and 11 (I'd say 8 is pretty much identical in difficulty to 12; maybe slightly harder) are the only ones you probably shouldn't try without a bit more experience, and No. 1 is not really considered exceptionally difficult, but I would personally say it's harder than 12, especially if you have slightly smaller hands.

[kitty on the keys]

All 3 have various demands:

   1. Impromptu
   2. Ocean   pattern arpeggios
   3. Liszt

 Kitty  on the Keys

[slow_concert_pianist]

Hardest Chopin etude, then Liszt Concert etude, last fantasie. To attain mastery for lightness and clarity in the Liszt is very tricky, but I think the arpeggios in Chopin can post more endurance and accuracy problems for most pianists technique. The Chopin poses more expression problems (it is easy to fall into the trap of playing the arpeggios with little musical value) than the Liszt but it is hard to keep up the energy of the cheeky nature of the Liszt. I think the Fantasie is the hardest to pull off in performance because it is so damn over played.

Correct. I think some commenting here will never be able to play Op25.12 for the reasons you have outlined.

[chopinfrederic]

The "Ocean" Etude is probably the most difficult, and Fantasie Impromptu being the easiest.

[awesom_o]

Saying that.... 6 year olds can play the ocean.

But to play the emotion of the ocean, no kid can do it.

After watching that video, would you REALLY say that kid can play op. 25/12?

 It was so messy and sloppy, it could have been any Chopin Etude he was playing underneath all of that pedal!

[chopinfrederic]

After watching that video, would you REALLY say that kid can play op. 25/12?

 It was so messy and sloppy, it could have been any Chopin Etude he was playing underneath all of that pedal!

It IS the Ocean Etude, and it's very good for a 6 year old.

[classicalnhiphop]

I really don't like it when people say, it's good for a 6 year old.  It's not good period, in that if the child is not ready to play the piece, he or she should not play it.  That's like an 8 year old playing Rach 3 and screwing up 75% of the notes and saying its good for his age simply because he is "able to play" the piece. 

[awesom_o]

It IS the Ocean Etude, and it's very good for a 6 year old.

It was mostly something of his own invention vaguely along the same lines as the op. 25/11. I reckon underneath all of the pedal, he probably only played about 1/3 of the notes.

YOU may say it's very good for a 6 year old. Personally, I would be much more impressed to hear him play a Bach Two-Part Invention with a really good understanding of articulation and phrasing. THAT would be impressive for a 6 year old!

Something from the way he plays in this video tells me he wouldn't be able to do that.... 

[lostinidlewonder]

It was just a bit of fun posting those videos of those incredibly gifted children. If you are not impressed by it then you must know some extraordinary children!!!!!