recital and maintain a repertoire

[nodb]

When I play pieces for a long time to build up a repertorium, I discover that I cannot start anywhere in the pieces. (Only) at the begining. I even forget the accompaniment after a period of time. (I know this skill is important as we perform.)
Do you always have to study in segments, hands seperated?
What if a pianist must play a recital of an hour?
We have not the time for this!
(I am a new member. Maybe there are yet similar questions in the forum?)
Thanks!

[pianisten1989]

practise with focus, and think of what tones you'll be playing next.
I've also started thinking through the piece(s) I'm playing right before I fall asleep; what notes to play, what dynamic and so on. and if you can't start from anywhere, then practise to start from somewhere else. Have like 4 spots on each page where you can start from. Then you ofc build that up, so you can start from anywhere you like.

[ramseytheii]

When I play pieces for a long time to build up a repertorium, I discover that I cannot start anywhere in the pieces. (Only) at the begining. I even forget the accompaniment after a period of time. (I know this skill is important as we perform.)
Do you always have to study in segments, hands seperated?
What if a pianist must play a recital of an hour?
We have not the time for this!
(I am a new member. Maybe there are yet similar questions in the forum?)
Thanks!

I have the sneaking suspicion, that we almost always carry within us the answers to our own problems.  We worry about the solutions, thinking there can't possibly be enough time, and yet the solution is staring us in the face.

You say you cannot start anywhere in the pieces you are learning.  The very fact that you mentioned it, means you want to.  So practice it.  Practice starting at anything at all, for instance, the development, if it is a sonata; the key change; the time signature change; this theme; that theme; this part, that part.  Why wouldn't you do everything you can, to achieve your goals?

You ask if you always have to study hands separate in segments.  Well, have you ever mastered something without it?  If so, then obviously you don't.  If not, then you have to keep doing that till you find any other ways.  You have to do whatever it takes to make it good. 

It is absurd to have the mentality that we "shouldn't have to" do this or that.  You have to address whatever weakness you have.  We look at great pianists, and think they were birthed out of the head of Zeus, when in fact they spent years and hours addressing their own weaknesses.

Look at Liszt's ridiculously boring technical exercises.  He wrote those down because he did them.  He never had the pride to say, "I should be able to play scales at this metronome speed in four note chords without practicing it," he sat down at did it, then wrote it down.  Busoni, the greatest pianist since Liszt, was already touring and famous when he took a sabbatical to work on his trills.   Richter supposedly practiced 12 hours a day, and could still flub an entire half of a recital.

Nobody should have the attitude of, this shouldn't have to be practiced to be good.  You should see reality for what it is: if you have trouble doing something, practice it; if you don't, good for you.  Who cares?

Walter Ramsey

[nodb]

I think I wasn't very clear.

I meaned that I cannot start "anymore" at different places in the piece.
In the begining I can.

Of course I practise in segments and hands seperated, but only in the begining.
I meaned: Does we have to "keep" doing this?

[lostinidlewonder]

What if you make a mistake in your piece mid way, or lose your place? Do you have to start from the beginning again? Surely you can recover and continue playing? If you absolutely cannot then it is a conscious and muscular memory problem, you should be able to play at the start of phrases anywhere in a piece, ok in strange places within a phrase it is sometimes very awkward but at the start of phrases this should be no problems.

[ramseytheii]

I think I wasn't very clear.

I meaned that I cannot start "anymore" at different places in the piece.
In the begining I can.

Of course I practise in segments and hands seperated, but only in the begining.
I meaned: Does we have to "keep" doing this?

I think certainly every pianist is different with how long, and how much they can memorize.  If you love a piece, you will always find a reason to go back to it.

You should learn pieces that you expect will be with you for your whole life.  By which I mean, pieces you will always want to practice, and can always improve.

Walter Ramsey

[pianisten1989]

Ah.. Well, if you can play like that in the beginning, but not later on, you probably do something wrong. Start playing hands seperate and slowly, as you do in the beginning...

[nodb]

Thank you all!
I can start anywhere in the piece and "know" every note in both hands, if I keep playing the piece VERY VERY slowly.
But the problem is that I use wrong motions in my wrist, arm,... And that's not good for the motor memory I think (?)

[quantum]

Of course I practise in segments and hands seperated, but only in the begining.
I meaned: Does we have to "keep" doing this?

It is not enough to just do work in the beginning.  You also need to maintain a piece.  If you find after playing a piece for a while you cannot divide the piece in sections and start in the middle, you have to practice those sections again.  

You find it easy to start at the beginning because that is what you are practicing.  If you want to start in the middle, you have to practice it as well.  


Try to also get to know what is ahead of you.  You have to be thinking ahead of the place you are currently playing.  Say you are playing section B of a piece, you need to be thinking of going to section C while you are in section B.  Do not rely on muscle memory alone to get you to section C.  It would be like getting in your car to go to the store without knowing where the store is, and just driving around and hoping you will find it.  

If you are having trouble thinking ahead, practice the piece backwards by section.  Or to get even more involved, backwards by phrase. 

[nodb]

I agree with everyone, great ideas.
But...my goal is to build up a large repertoire for recitals, and maintained it thereafter.
How can one save time when studying? What is the shortest most efficient practise method after one has learnt a piece (to maintain it)? Keep practising in segments and hands alone requires to much time.
How do concertpianists practise the days before a big recital?
Are they still practising every segment in every piece hands alone (for a reliable memory)?
Are they practising every day for 6 hours or more?

[artsyalchemist]

Divide your pieces into sections, and mix and match them.  This helped not only with retention but with memorization. 

And as for practicing hands apart, if your piece requires it, do so.  It may seem ridiculous by the time it's performance ready, but being prepared for just about anything helps.  I've had problems come up in pieces I had been playing for months which had never happened beforehand..so yes, take the time to work out whatever hinders your performance.