techniques for dressing up a piano piece or transcription?

[Bob]

I've got a simple song I'd like to transcribe.  It's got an orchestra in it. 

Fine for the orchestra.  Not so fine for a piano transcription.  Some things won't work.  Some things will be a little simple sounding on the piano.

Are there any books on this? 

Or is the something like a list (or a Liszt,haha) of standard piano voicing techniques?   Maybe I'll just dig through a few Chopin etudes or something to get ideas...

[Bob]

Are there any books/resources for this?

I'm having trouble getting a search going.  Piano and transcription don't give me the results I want.

Duh, yes.  I'm being too specific.  "Arrange" might help.

Or I was thinking orchestration or instrumentation.  But that sounds more orchestral.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I assume from your wording that you are looking to do a fairly "straight" transcription, not a paraphrase - doing a typical Liszt showy-type paraphrase requires different techniques. A few thoughts..

I would suggest looking through transcriptions of two well-known arias: the Liszt transcription of Isolde's Liebestod and the Thalberg transcription on Casta Diva (from L'art du chant, op. 70, it's no. 19 in the set) and seeing how they lay it out. To me, the most obvious aspects are Liszt's use of quiet tremolandi for textural reasons, and the way in which the two hands are used as one unit within which the melody may move (i.e. sharing the melodic line between the hands: this is a Thalberg trademark).

I suspect the effectiveness of the end result will depend on how well you lay out the arrangement and on how well you can bring out melodic lines within the hand (remember that often one hand may be playing both melody and part of the accompaniment texture). I'd suggest that, all other things being equal, the denser the orchestral writing, the harder it is to arrange effectively.
 

[Bob]

I thought about that.  I'm looking for a book though for now.  Something very 'paint by numbers.'

I did find this.
https://www.professionalorchestration.com/titles/transcribing-orchestra.php
It's got something about going back and forth between piano and orchestra.

[Bob]

https://www.amazon.com/Professional-Orchestration-Practical-Handbook-Strings/dp/093906796X/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b

That looks interesting too.

[Bob]

I must have a knack for trying to find things that either don't exist or are trickier to find, like the little practice keyboard.  And now this.  Again.  I know I've search a couple times in the past.

I think the Joseph Wagner book is the one one of my theory profs mentioned in the past. 

I found another similar direction is 'how to play an orchestral score on the piano.'

[Bob]

Something about "orchestral" reduction might be another term too.

Arrangement, instrumentation, transcription... those are kind of right but include a lot more than what I'm looking for.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Yes, reduction may well be a pertinent term. Transcription is a term with ambiguities as some transcriptions are strictly speaking paraphrases (e.g. where the composer/arranger has added to or embellished the original).

If I was doing a strict reduction, I would get the score and subdivide it into the primary melodic parts, counter-melodies (if any), and harmony. I would go from there and try to work out how to fit the various parts into the two hands, assigning priority to the most texturally important parts and accepting that you maybe can't fit everything in. I've done arrangements in the past but they have tended to be rather freer in nature than what I think you're looking for.

[Bob]

I'm looking for strict and freer. 

With the Wagner book, I was thinking that might involve less thought if it's just recognizing the technique and "translating" it to piano.

[Bob]

Grrr.... There must be more stuff out there.  I just don't know what to look for.

It's really one-way.  Orchestra (or anything) to piano.  Transcribing it or doing a more pianistic arrangement.

[Bob]

This could be under accompanying too.  Or composition, improvisation.  Or even sight-reading.

[Bob]

Hmm.... Maybe something under arranging or composition for piano.  Something about texture for piano.  I'm still thinking.

[Bob]

The Wagner book looks interesting.  That's the only thing I've found that is more direct.

What other works are for both piano only and also for orchestra?  I think I'll make another thread. 

Using that, you can compare what's going on in the orchestra with what the piano solo part is.  Although it's more work.  The Wagner book has a little explanation but it's still a little... like his opinions on what's possible.  I found what I've read of it interesting for blurring up being so literal about going from piano to orchestra and vice versa.

[pianisten1989]

I haven't read it myself, but the author has written many good books: Maurice Hinson - the pianist's guide to transcriptions, arrangement and paraphrases

[Bob]

That's true.  He does have the transcriptions book.

Haha... And I have that around here somewhere.... Thanks for the reminder.

Still not quite sure what I'm looking for.  I think I just need to get some book, do a little studying, and then try arranging some things myself.  Just dive in.

[rob47]

what piece are you trying to transcribe Bob?