What is this chord?

[banana-]

Im trying to name all the chords in Rachmaninoff's prelude Op. 3 no. 2 in C# minor. In bar 5 there is a chord that consists of a minor third and a major second, specifically B C# (G# B C# G#). What do you call this chord?
Also a chord that has it reversed (e.g. Root, major second, minor third) also in bar 5: E F# A E.
And B D# E B in bar 6?

[banana-]

So, is it just a stupid question or does nobody know an answer? At least make me aware if I'm unaware.

[stevebob]

There are chord-name finders on the internet, and I plugged your chords into my favorite—Pocket Piano Chord Name Finder—after your original post.  (I forget what the results were, but I didn't recognize the descriptions as being of "standard" chords.)

I'm sorry your post went unanswered; I anticipated that someone with more knowledge of music theory than I have would respond.  Perhaps someone will!  In the meantime, though, I recommend you try that link and see if the information you get is useful or makes any sense.

[landru]

Not knowing the harmonic context of the chord (which can really help deducing the role of the chord and hence what you might call it), I would call the first one a C sharp 7th without the 3rd (C#7-3). The 3rd of course would determine if it was a major or minor chord - the ambiguity perhaps serves a purpose in the phrase? Major would be E# and minor would be E. Since the prelude is in C sharp minor, my bet is on the minor.

The E F# A E chord could be a F# minor 7th, and the B D# E B could be a lot of things, a B with an added 4th (B4 or Bsus4 or B11 - I'm not quite sure), or an E minor with a major 7th, maybe notated as Emin(maj7). All guesses, again a theory geek would really know how to hammer them out!

My bet is that these "note structures" may be passing phrases between harmonies, which is very abundant in jazz contexts.

[point of grace]

in my favourite notation jeje

G# B C# G#... C#7m / G#
E F# A E... F#m7 / E
B D# E B... Bsus

[richard black]

The chord in question is by implication a C# minor 7, but it lacks the E.

[point of grace]

so we should check the context. it could also be: G#m4

[banana-]

Wow you guys have been of great help! Thanks for all your answers. Some of you may think it's useless to put this much energy in figuring out a few of the chords, but it helps me a lot with memorizing. And I think it's interesting . Now I tried to figure it out and this is what I came up with, based on your suggestions and by ear:

The G# B C# G# is probably a C# minor 7th (C# (E missing) G# B C#) without the E. It also sounds ok when I fill the chord up with the E.

The E F# A E could be a F# minor 7th (F# A (C#missing) E F#) or a F# half-diminished 7th (F# A (C missing) E F#). Depends on if respectively the C# or C is missing. Based on what I hear, it’s a F# half-diminished 7th because it sounds better in the context when I fill in the missing C.

And I have to come to the conclusion (could be wrong) that the B D# E B has to be a E major seventh with the G# removed (E (G# missing) B D# E), ofcourse inverted again.

If anyone is interested, the chords can be found in Rachmaninoff's prelude op. 3 no.2:
G# B C# G# = second chord from bar 5
E F# A E = fourth chord from bar 5
B D# E B = second chord from bar 6

[point of grace]

i will check the prelude... anyway for better conclusions you must see the chord next to the one you have doubts.
for instance, the chord i told you i think it's a Bsus (B D# E) should be followed by a B (B D# F#) or a E (E G# B)... that way you know that's a Bsus


would you tell me the follow chord to this one? E major seventh with the G# removed... you named it that way but it depends where is it going...

love,
Yanina

[banana-]

It's in bar 6:


So far I have (from the 5 chords in bar 6):
First chord: E major
Second Chord:E major seventh (-G#)
Third chord: A major
- Octaves E
Fourth chord: A# major seventh (-F)
- Octaves D#
Fifth chord: G diminished

I've attached bar 4, 5 and 6 as well:

[synthex]

.

[anna_crusis]

>>
In bar 5 there is a chord that consists of a minor third and a major second, specifically B C# (G# B C# G#). What do you call this chord?>>

G sharp minor.

>>Also a chord that has it reversed (e.g. Root, major second, minor third) also in bar 5: E F# A E>>

The Csharp is missing but by implication it is F sharp minor7.

>>And B D# E B in bar 6?>>

No Gsharp but once again, it's pretty clear we're talking about Emajor7.

[rsp1]

The second chord in bar 5 is C# min 7.  It is acting as an inversion of the first chord which is C# min and adding the 7th.  The third is still sounding from the previous chord with the pedal and can still be considered in effect without the pedal  This is in a 5th relationship to the third chord -- F# min.

The next chord is a F# half-dim 7th (or F# min 7 b5) in its 2nd inversion (5th in the bass).  The root again is in a 5th relation with the following B min chord.

The next measure starts a similar process but on E --  E maj; E 7; A maj; A# m7 b5 (5th in the bass) D# maj.

[point of grace]

i liked that

[banana-]

@ Synthex, thank you very much for this post. Although it does not directly help with identifying complex chords like these, I know there are a lot of benefits from learning intervals. I will definately try out your excercises from time to time.

@anna_crusis, that can't be right..

And rsp1, I think those all correspond with the chords I came up with. Thanks for confirming this and explaining the relations!!

[synthex]

?