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Topic: Scraibin's Vers la flamme  (Read 2101 times)

Offline steinway88

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Scraibin's Vers la flamme
on: July 10, 2004, 05:50:31 AM
Would this be consisdered a tone poem or sonata? And what do you think of the piece?

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Scraibin's Vers la flamme
Reply #1 on: July 10, 2004, 05:11:08 PM
Quote
Would this be consisdered a tone poem or sonata? And what do you think of the piece?


 I consider it to be his 11th sonata, even though it's obviously not in sonata form he employs in the last five.  One of the criticisms leveled against Scriabin (most notably by Copland) is that Scriabin had this bold, novel harmonic system, but encased it this prosaic, outdated sonata form.  

koji
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline green

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Re: Scraibin's Vers la flamme
Reply #2 on: July 10, 2004, 09:31:29 PM
Well, it would be very interesting to know how skriabin viewed the sonata as a form, perhaps better understood in terms of the meaning it still held culturally. The 'power' of these forms was linked to the way in which artists believed God to manifest himself in the world; a critical audience of the time of course would know this, and judge the artist based on the degree to which the 'classical' forms were extended.

But look at the poems and 'pieces', those r improvisations, the sonatas were simply 'grand' improvisations.

Copeland does have a point, however, but he does not recognize that Skriabin DID abandon the Sonate form.

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Scraibin's Vers la flamme
Reply #3 on: July 11, 2004, 05:46:51 PM
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Well, it would be very interesting to know how skriabin viewed the sonata as a form, perhaps better understood in terms of the meaning it still held culturally. The 'power' of these forms was linked to the way in which artists believed God to manifest himself in the world; a critical audience of the time of course would know this, and judge the artist based on the degree to which the 'classical' forms were extended.

But look at the poems and 'pieces', those r improvisations, the sonatas were simply 'grand' improvisations.

Copeland does have a point, however, but he does not recognize that Skriabin DID abandon the Sonate form.


 Copland, I believe, referred to them as 'magnificent failures'.  Failures in the sense that he reined in his new harmonic language with such an archaic form (but what did the new forms that Schoenberg explored ever get him)?  I appreciate Copland's viewpoints, but do not subscribe to them.

koji
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline steinway88

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Re: Scraibin's Vers la flamme
Reply #4 on: July 14, 2004, 07:50:28 PM
Thanks alot guys
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