Vaughan Williams Fantasia on the Old 104th Psalm Tune

[thalbergmad]

My interest in works for piano and orchestra has led me eventually to the above "music".

I have just experienced perhaps the worst 15 minutes or so of my life and this ear splitting racket has actually given me a headache.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who has heard this.

Luv

Thal

[argerichfan]

There's a lot of Vaughan Williams which I love, but alas, not the 'Old 104th'.   Dunno what happened, but Ralph seemed to have had other things on his mind. 

[thalbergmad]

Oh well, I suppose all composers have off days.

This is really horrid.

Thal

[ahinton]

Oh well, I suppose all composers have off days.

This is really horrid.

Indeed - and composers surely do have off days - but on top of that, Vaughan Williams and the piano were not as a rule the easiest of bedfellows, after all (any more than were Tippett and the same instrument).

Best,

Alistair

[retrouvailles]

Tippett actually produced some really nice music for the piano, though. I think anyone can call 4 good piano sonatas and a respectable piano concerto an accomplishment! It's certainly better than what Vaughan Williams produced for the instrument.

[thalbergmad]

Vaughan Williams and the piano were not as a rule the easiest of bedfellows

My journey through British Piano Concertos has yielded some other examples, but none as bad to my ears as the VW.

Hopefully the postman will bring me some George Lloyd tomorrow, so I will give him a bash.

Thal

[furtwaengler]

Tippett actually produced some really nice music for the piano, though. I think anyone can call 4 good piano sonatas and a respectable piano concerto an accomplishment! It's certainly better than what Vaughan Williams produced for the instrument.

I love the 2nd sonata especially...a creative way of structuring things.

[argerichfan]

My journey through British Piano Concertos has yielded some other examples, but none as bad to my ears as the VW.

Now you're still talking about the '104th', correct?  Because I happen to really like the piano concerto- either version.  Minority opinion perhaps, but there are few major works of VW which I like more. 

[ramseytheii]

I don't know this, but I know the very bombastic setting of same hymn tune with organ, brass, choir and congregational singing that was used at some Coronation ceremony or other.  If the piece you are speaking of is as awful as that one, I pity you!

Let us not forget that even Beethoven and Wagner wrote very cheap music to supplement ritualistic events of their days.

Walter Ramsey

[argerichfan]

I don't know this, but I know the very bombastic setting of same hymn tune with organ, brass, choir and congregational singing that was used at some Coronation ceremony or other.  If the piece you are speaking of is as awful as that one, I pity you!

You're thinking of VW's setting of Old 100th for the Coronation of '53.   Actually I rather like it, and it works well for other ceremonial occasions.  But this setting of the Old 104 is truly in a class by itself and does the composer no favours. 

[thalbergmad]

Now you're still talking about the '104th', correct?  Because I happen to really like the piano concerto- either version. 

Indeed i am.

I can live with the concerto albeit it might be a few years before i listen to it again.

Thal

[ramseytheii]

You're thinking of VW's setting of Old 100th for the Coronation of '53.   Actually I rather like it, and it works well for other ceremonial occasions.  But this setting of the Old 104 is truly in a class by itself and does the composer no favours. 

Oops, of course the 100th.  Wasn't thinking there!

wAlter rAmasey

[gmod32]

I actually sang in a performance of Fantasia on the Old 104th Psalm Tune about a year or so ago. I actually kind of liked the piece. However, my piano teacher, who was playing the piano part of it, said that the piano writing was not pianistic at all. Anyway, I guess I'm in the minority here but the piece is out of print so it's not like you are likely to hear it that often.

Oh, and it's not in a class completely by itself; Beethoven's choral fantasy is along the same lines.

[ahinton]

Tippett actually produced some really nice music for the piano, though. I think anyone can call 4 good piano sonatas and a respectable piano concerto an accomplishment! It's certainly better than what Vaughan Williams produced for the instrument.

Tippett's piano music is invariably written in a most awkward, clumsy and ungrateful manner (perhaps it had to me). The second sonata is perhaps the worst culprit, the first is an innocuous, attractive but immature work, the fourth well outstays its welcome and the third - well, that's the neraest he ever got to convincing piano writing, to my mind - it stands head and shoulders above the other three. The piano concerto I found very appealing right from my first experience of it in the hands of John Ogdon, but when I got the score and tried to do some work on it I discovered just how unwieldy the solo writing is. Tippett's best work is for other forces - the quartets (especially no. 3), A Midsummer Marriage, Symphony No. 2, The Vision of St. Augustine, Concerto for Orchestra, Triple Concerto...

Best,

Alistair

[retrouvailles]

Yeah, those are all very good points, especially about his talent in writing for other forces. I think his piano sonatas do have a rather awkward vein running through them from a pianistic perspective, but the musical integrity of the pieces is not compromised and shines through in the hands of a great artist who can negotiate whatever problems the pieces have, as evidenced by many of the recordings out there, such as Ogdon and Osborne.