I have a death wish.

[invictious]

That's right, ladies and gentlemen.

After listening to these pieces:
Stravinsky - First movement of Petroushka for Solo Piano (three mvts version)
Debussy - L'isle Joyeuse
Scriabin - Sonata No.5

I have decided to make learning these pieces my long term goals. We are talking about learning a phrase every time I practice.

If anyone would like to assist me in my epic journey, please do so.

Invictious

[pianisten1989]

How old are you then, and when do you plan to die?

[invictious]

Quite obviously not advanced enough to tackle the piece in full, but only at a slow pace without causing too much pain.

[pianisten1989]

Well, good luck then

[perfect_pitch]

After listening to these pieces:
Stravinsky - First movement of Petroushka for Solo Piano (three mvts version)

I have decided to make learning these pieces my long term goals. We are talking about learning a phrase every time I practice.

If anyone would like to assist me in my epic journey, please do so.

FISH OIL... GULP THAT CRAP DOWN AND FEEL THE LOOSENESS...

Also, my secret was to spend 8 months getting the piece to half speed, then spend about 5 - 6 months getting it incrementally faster each month.

Glad you're taking it on... it's a pregnant dog of a piece, but *** it - I love playing it.

[stevebob]

I have decided to make learning these pieces my long term goals. We are talking about learning a phrase every time I practice.

Quite obviously not advanced enough to tackle the piece in full, but only at a slow pace without causing too much pain.

I have no idea whether you have, or can acquire, the physical technique ultimately to play such pieces, but it sounds like there's a psychological component to your situation.  You appear to lack confidence in your abilities, so you've found a way to make an enormous challenge seem possible:  you'll learn a phrase in each practice session.

But as a practical matter, how much does that differ from your standard method of learning?  I think that most of us approach any lengthy, complex and challenging piece in a similar fashion:  we "tackle the piece in full" by addressing ourselves incrementally to the chunks into which we break it down.  Even if those chunks are larger than individual phrases, they're still chunks that are treated discretely over countless practice sessions and finally knitted together.

So when you say you're "not advanced enough to tackle the piece in full," I think that's what you'll be doing after all—one phrase at a time.  And if you can learn a phrase at a time, you really do have the means to tackle the piece in full.

But hey, whatever works!  If it truly helps you to conceptualize your endeavor in the way you describe, then do it.  On the other hand, it might be more efficient to face these pieces head-on just as you would any others you realistically plan to learn.

For example, "a phrase at a time" implies learning successive phrases one after another; it may be more effective instead to nail the most difficult passages first (or, in any case, to practice them out of sequence).  Also, it's possible you'll hinder your grasp of a composition as a unified musical structure if you learn it as a succession of isolated phrases; if you regard it as a whole and break it down into manageable parts for yourself, you'll likely have a clearer idea of how to bring those parts together when the time comes.

[ramseytheii]

Where's the PayPal link?

Walter Ramsey

[invictious]

I have no idea whether you have, or can acquire, the physical technique ultimately to play such pieces, but it sounds like there's a psychological component to your situation.  You appear to lack confidence in your abilities, so you've found a way to make an enormous challenge seem possible:  you'll learn a phrase in each practice session.

But as a practical matter, how much does that differ from your standard method of learning?  I think that most of us approach any lengthy, complex and challenging piece in a similar fashion:  we "tackle the piece in full" by addressing ourselves incrementally to the chunks into which we break it down.  Even if those chunks are larger than individual phrases, they're still chunks that are treated discretely over countless practice sessions and finally knitted together.

Actually I was being too humble. I can sight-read all the concertos by Rachmaninov with relative ease. I can also play the whole of Petrushka with one hand. I can play Un Sospiro with my feet too, if that counts.

What I meant is that, as opposed to the usual approach of attacking larger chunks of the music at once, I will take on smaller chunks instead.

Oh and, am I the only one discouraged already from the 'STUFF' right after the first glissando in Petrushka? Specifically, I refer to bars 9-12. The ones after shall be dealt with later on. For now I wish to focus on those four bars, then the next phrase, then the next, etc..

Day after day I move closer to successfully completing my death wish.

[stevebob]

Day after day I move closer to successfully completing my death wish.

Well, good luck with that then.  I'm glad you found my comments useful.

[kitty on the keys]

Stevebob, I totally agree with you  ! I like to break my pieces into 'chunks'. I find my learning is faster and more solid. I usually map out my pieces after I plow though them a couple times and then get to work.
   Everyone has a different learning style and will uses what effectively works for them. Those are 3 challanging pieces...and I would still block them into chunks them put it back together.

Kitty on the Keys

[invictious]

I do not understand how there can be so much frustration, difficulty and discouragement packed into the first twenty seconds of Petrushka. It is just, beyond the limits of my meagre mind.

Maybe I should just go back to my Heroic Polonaise.








Actually, still bashing out the keys to Petrushka.

[nanabush]

The Debussy isn't too bad.  I'm thinking of playing that in the near future (next year possibly?).  I've read through it in little bits just for fun, and I find that although it was written before the preludes, there are loads of bits from it that you can find in the much shorter preludes.  I've played a bunch of them, and looking through l'Isle Joyeuse, I'm seeing alot of 'technical' stuff that I've had to deal with in other Debussy stuff. 

If you've played some of his Preludes, or even 'Reflets dans l'Eau' (which has a lot of technical similarities to l'Isle), then you'll probably be able to work on this without killing yourself...



Scriabin is disgusting... his music is amazing, but the finger work combined with all of the leaps makes this music way less appealing to learn haha (especially when the tempo picks up in the 5th sonata, with all of those RH triads).  Maybe play a few of his etudes before learning the sonata?  His left hand writing is on crack pretty much 100% of the time 

I like listening to Petrouchka, but that's about it.  My teacher showed me the music for it, and I tried a bit for fun but yea, I couldn't get anywhere past that glissando.

[invictious]

The Debussy isn't too bad.  I'm thinking of playing that in the near future (next year possibly?).  I've read through it in little bits just for fun, and I find that although it was written before the preludes, there are loads of bits from it that you can find in the much shorter preludes.  I've played a bunch of them, and looking through l'Isle Joyeuse, I'm seeing alot of 'technical' stuff that I've had to deal with in other Debussy stuff. 

If you've played some of his Preludes, or even 'Reflets dans l'Eau' (which has a lot of technical similarities to l'Isle), then you'll probably be able to work on this without killing yourself...



Scriabin is disgusting... his music is amazing, but the finger work combined with all of the leaps makes this music way less appealing to learn haha (especially when the tempo picks up in the 5th sonata, with all of those RH triads).  Maybe play a few of his etudes before learning the sonata?  His left hand writing is on crack pretty much 100% of the time 

I like listening to Petrouchka, but that's about it.  My teacher showed me the music for it, and I tried a bit for fun but yea, I couldn't get anywhere past that glissando.

Thanks for your reply.

L'isle joyeuse was written before the preludes? I never knew that! Technically and musically speaking, I believe that one should at least be able to play all of his preludes before even attempting works such as L'isle joyeuse, or even works like Reflets dan l'eau. If I did learn all the preludes, then this would not be a death wish, wouldn't it.

Scriabin's fifth sonata, no matter how overplayed and butchered, is still an orgasmic piano piece (as it actually is!). Indeed the score does look intimidating. With such large leaps, difficult cross-rhythms, complex chord structures, it seems that one probably would have ripped his hair out just to learn it for a competition!

Petrushka..let's not talk about it while I quietly hide the sheet music and pretend that it never existed!